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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>You are losing me a bit on what you are
actually trying to do. Is there an actual design you are working on or are you
just trying to get a better feel for how the Alcatel routers work?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>In regards to schedulers it’s my
understanding that schedulers don’t reserve anything. They are simple rules to
condition traffic. They have no meaning in so far as how a port actually
conditions traffic. I believe “obtained bandwidth” refers to bandwidth defined
in the root scheduler that a sap ingress/egress queue policy references which
seems to be what you are alluding to in your first interpretation. So if I
configured:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> scheduler-policy "bandwidth"
create<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> tier 1<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> scheduler "1.5M"
create<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> rate 1500 cir 1500<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> exit<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The “obtained bandwidth” is 1500 based on (I
think) the CIR. Maybe “obtained bandwidth” is a little misleading because I
actually haven’t obtained or reserved anything from a port stand point. All I
have done is rate or shaped any traffic from a queue that references the
scheduler to 1.5mbs. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The same scheduler policy can be applied
across multiple ports or saps. This leads me to believe that a scheduler
policy or a scheduler has no relevance to actually port bandwidth allocation. So
there is no notation of dividing out bandwidth in a scheduler policy from one
port to the next or one sap to the next. It can only allocate bandwidth to its
children tiers.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>In the case of having more then one SAP defined
on the same port and you want all those SAPs to have an equal chance of sending
traffic and ensure that all traffic is prioritized equally across all SAPs then
that is when you have to look at either a multi-service site policy or a port
scheduler as mentioned previously.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I really don’t understand what you mean by
“multiple tier-1 schedulers defined on the same SAP”. As you know we associate
traffic to a given scheduler via the SAP ingress and egress policy via the
parent command under the queues themselves, while the SAP itself references the
scheduler policy. While you can create a sap policy where the queues
referenced different schedulers if the schedulers don’t reside under the same
scheduler policy then I don’t think the parent command would do anything.
Maybe I just don’t understand your question.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>One thing I do get a little fuzzy on is where
the arbitrator fits in. I think the arbitrator is the final conditioning of
traffic before actual port serialization or transport through the switch fabric
in which case it would be after queue scheduling. So in mind after we have
done all these fancy schedulers, traffic still goes through the low priority
and high priority pass.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Kila Hsu
[mailto:hsukila@yahoo.com] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, February 23, 2009
6:32 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> alcatel-nsp@puck.nether.net;
GARCIA DEL RIO Diego; Mark Griffin<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [alcatel-nsp]
Question about Service QoS Policies on 7750SR</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0>
<tr>
<td valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Mark,<br>
<br>
Thanks for your suggestion. I got this book and read through the queueing and
scheduling parts of it. This helps but most of my question still remains.<br>
<br>
In Chapter 10 of the book, the idea of dual arbitrator makes sense but it
would not be so clear when we have H-Qos and have more than one SAP defined
on the same port, or have multiple tier-1 schedulers defined on the same SAP.<br>
<br>
In Chapter 11 of this book, the arbitrator idea is not mentioned anymore.. It
is assumed that the root scheduler already have the "Obtained
bandwidth" but it is not clear to me how the "obtained
bandwidth" is calculated. Does this depend on the CIR/PIR defined on the
scheduler, or simply by dividing the total BW on the port by the number of
tier 1 schedulers, or even other more complex method? I believe the actual
schedulers does not divide the bandwidth first then schedule the packets, but
rather the BW is the effective value of the result of scheduling. It is very
clear to everybody that how the tier one will select a packet from all its
child queues when it is allowed to transmit, but it is totally black (for me
at least) how the actual port selects which tier 1 scheduler to send next.<br>
From the previous response from Diego it seems this is again back to the
arbitrator, but if anyone knows any more details it would be very nice, since
I'm not too confident to deploy this without knowing more details..<br>
<br>
thanks,<br>
Kila<br>
<br>
--- On <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Thu, 2/19/09, Mark Griffin <i><span
style='font-style:italic'><Mark.Griffin@hawaiiantel.com></span></i></span></b>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>From: Mark Griffin
<Mark.Griffin@hawaiiantel.com><br>
Subject: RE: [alcatel-nsp] Question about Service QoS Policies on 7750SR<br>
To: hsukila@yahoo.com, alcatel-nsp@puck.nether.net, "GARCIA DEL RIO
Diego" <Diego.Garcia_Del_Rio@alcatel-lucent.be><br>
Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009, 7:00 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div id=yiv713432732>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>Kila, do you have Ram’s book “Advance QoS for Multi-service
IP/MPLS Networks”? His book does a good job of explaining the behavior
of traffic conditioning in the hierarchal model.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
alcatel-nsp-bounces@puck.nether.net [mailto:alcatel-nsp-bounces@puck.nether.net]
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Kila Hsu<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, February 19,
2009 12:44 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> alcatel-nsp@puck.nether.net;
GARCIA DEL RIO Diego<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [alcatel-nsp]
Question about Service QoS Policies on 7750SR</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0>
<tr>
<td valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Thanks
a lot, Diego!<br>
<br>
I still have several question though. Assume that we don't have a port
scheduler defined, and we do get congestion. As you mentioned, now queues
are transmitted at the physical level using round robin, with expedited
queues being served first.<br>
<br>
1. By "queues" do you mean the queue-to-be-transmitted for each
SAP? If there are multiple tier 1 schedulers, or orphaned queues in a SAP,
which one will get transmitted? (or will these queues now become the
candidates for the physical level round-robin?)<br>
<br>
2. How are the weights assigned for all these queues? Or is this just an
plain old round-robin with every queue equally weighted?<br>
<br>
3. If under each SAP I have hierarchical scheduler, it is possible that for
one SAP, the next packet to be sent comes from an best-effort queue but the
next-next one comes from an expedited queue (although this is a bad
design). In this case, will this SAP have to wait in the physical level
until the expedite queues from other SAPs are transmitted?<br>
<br>
I hope I state the problems clearly. Thanks again for all who kindly
answer!<br>
<br>
Best Regards,<br>
Kila Hsu<br>
<br>
--- On <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Mon, 2/16/09, <st1:City w:st="on">GARCIA</st1:City>
<st1:State w:st="on">DEL</st1:State> <st1:place w:st="on">RIO</st1:place>
Diego <i><span style='font-style:italic'><Diego.Garcia_Del_Rio@alcatel-lucent.be></span></i></span></b>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>From: GARCIA
DEL RIO Diego <Diego.Garcia_Del_Rio@alcatel-lucent.be><br>
Subject: Re: [alcatel-nsp] Question about Service QoS Policies on 7750SR<br>
To: alcatel-nsp@puck.nether.net<br>
Date: Monday, February 16, 2009, 1:15 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div id=yiv1249666742>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hi Hsu,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy'>
If your version of TiMOS allows it, you could run a “port-parent”
scheduler, which allows you to map the parent scheduler of the queues in
the SAPs to a port-level scheduler that will distribute bandwidth between
all it’s children according to the configured prioritied.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy'>
If you don’t have the port-schduler function (it appeared in TiMOS 5.0r4
and onwards), sap-queues and schedulers behave “as expected” when there is
no congestion at the port level, that is, all egressing traffic is less
than the port’s egress rate.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy'>
If there is congestion though, and no port-scheduler is configured, queues
are indeed served in round-robin fashion with the “expedited” queues (in
in-profile state) being served exhaustively, then “best-effort”
(in-profile) and finally all out-of-profile queues.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy'>
So.. in short, if using TiMOS 5.0 or newer, take a look at port-level
schedulers ;-)</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Cheers!</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p><font size=2 color=black face="Trebuchet MS"><span style='font-size:
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>></span></font><font color=navy><span style='color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
alcatel-nsp-bounces@puck.nether.net
[mailto:alcatel-nsp-bounces@puck.nether.net] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Kila Hsu<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 16 February 2009 16:46<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b>
alcatel-nsp@puck.nether.net<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [alcatel-nsp]
Question about Service QoS Policies on 7750SR</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Hi,<br>
Thanks a lot to Mark for the information about the ways to share a port
among SAPs.<br>
However, my boss seems to like the idea that each SAP can have its own
queues and schedulers though..<br>
So say if I still need to deploy QoS on a per-SAP base, anyone know how
the packets from different SAPs defined on a common port would be
scheduled, if each has its own queue/scheduler?<br>
From the config guide I do see the "expedite" setting have
something to do with "hardware scheduler", but it is not clear
if the setting is used in cases like this.<br>
Any idea would be appreciated.<br>
<br>
thanks,<br>
Kila Hsu<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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