> I can't seem to find anything real world as to how much 3des > throughput these can do <http://www.cisco.com/web/partners/downloads/765/tools/quickreference/vpn_ performance_eng.pdf> shows 8Mbps. The 870 series does 30Mbps, is similar to 850 series and would be much cheaper than a jump to the 18xx ~JasonG --