[c-nsp] mailing list vs. web site (WAS: Re: SFC DOWN)

[e ninja]

Jay,

Not sure what you continue to refer to here about *"**scraping cisco-nsp for
email addresses**"* but to minimize your exposure, you may want to refrain
from making unsubstantiated allegations against corporate entities without
facts.

All that was suggested is simple, if folks have extra bandwidth, they should
clearly and concisely document best practices in a format that is easily
searchable and reusable for posterity. Whether that is mysolvr.com, CCO,
juniper.net, private blogs or impulse.net, it really doesn't matter.

Suggesting that someone taking the time to research and respond to a complex
2-day old GSR 12000 ASIC problem that no one else on the list had responded
to - is doing so for an ulterior motive is highly unprofessional. You need
to remove emotions from your list conversations and focus on the only reason
why everybody is here - to *voluntarily* help others solve their technical
problems. Remember, a list is only as good as the quality of the answers
people get from it.

eom on this matter.
eninja




On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 2:23 PM, Jay Hennigan <jay at west.net> wrote:

> John Osmon wrote:
>
>> Let me preafce my words with the thought that I find the most of the new
>> wikis, forums, and whatnots are poor substitutes for searchable text
>> archives.
>>
>
> Agreed.
>
>  However, I learned most of my foundation material from Usenet
>> in the late 80s and early 90s, so I might be biased...
>>
>
> Ditto.
>
>  On Sun, Aug 02, 2009 at 06:51:07AM -0700, e ninja wrote:
>>
>>> Gert,
>>>
>>> So if we apply your thought process, there is no value in capturing and
>>> organizing re-usable intellectual capital? I guess you must think
>>> Wikipedia
>>> is useless and we should just trawl through the web and layers of email
>>> threads to find simple answers to questions that have already been
>>> answered?
>>>
>>
>> You're putting words in Gert's mouth suggesting he derides the valuable
>> (free) services available.  I've never met Gert, but would buy him a beer
>> if I found we were in the same room.  Gert and others have helped
>> me (and others) countless times without need of any of the tools you
>> espouse -- so there is already value present without need for more work...
>>
>
> Agreed, and I'd buy him two.  Issues brought to this list should be
> discussed on this list and hopefully resolved on this list.  A "Go over
> there for the answer" response fragments discussion and actually tends to
> make future searches for the same information less likely to succeed as
> information on the web changes, links break, etc.
>
> A response of "Go over there for the answer" from someone with a vested
> interest in "Over there" is nothing more than an advertisement for "Over
> there".
>
>  Back to the main point:
>> There is value -- but who has to exert energy, and who reaps the
>> benefits?
>>
>
> Those looking for the information have to exert the energy, those trying to
> commercialize it reap the benefits.
>
>  The value of any list is to share knowledge. If there are free tools out
>>> there like mysolvr (a user-generated knowledge-base), that also allows us
>>> to
>>> go the extra mile of documenting and organizing re-usable know-how for
>>> the
>>> benefit of others, it is worth the effort.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, there is likely value in organizing the info.  However, is the
>> marginal value greater than the marginal cost?  I'm of the opinion
>> that most of the people reading this list and the archives believe
>> that it works well as it is.
>>
>
> Agreed.
>
>  We have to work smarter, not harder.
>>>
>>
>> Absolutely!  However, I think that you've got a hard hill in front of
>> you trying to change the behavior of people using this list.
>>
>
> And the smart way to work is to avoid fragmenting the information.  The
> hard way is to fragment it among diffuse sites.  The ethical way is to
> resist hijacking threads to promote one's own website.
>
>  A smarter approach might be to start moving the data to your preferred
>> site on your own.  Perhaps even building automated tools to do so.  If
>> your idea catches on, you could very well end up with a reputation and
>> following like Jared and/or Gert.  Until that occurs, I have doubts that
>> the wealth of info on cisco-nsp will be transferred to
>> another medium...
>>
>
> He doesn't want to move the information to his site on his own.  He wants
> us to do it for him.  This began over a year ago with scraping cisco-nsp for
> email addresses and spamming them with "invitations".  It went mostly
> under-the-radar until his spambot went nuts and flooded its victims with
> multiple invitations at once.  Faded under the radar again and now he's back
> hawking the sister site.
>
>  (With that said, I'd be happy to be proven wrong -- more knowledge is
>> better!  I don't, however, think that I'd get enough out of the
>> process to spend my time doing any of the prep work...)
>>
>
> Agreed.  And it fragments the information.
>
> --
> Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay at impulse.net
> Impulse Internet Service  -  http://www.impulse.net/
> Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV
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