[c-nsp] ARP strangeness

Wed Jan 5 02:01:01 EST 2011

Rodney:

I can't recall seeing that ARP refresh documented anywhere, but it's
obviously happening.

I agree with you about the race condition.  Yesterday I set the FTTH MAC
timeout to be 2 times the ARP refresh interval plus 60 seconds (to give me
some room if the ARP unicast refresh doesn't happen exactly after 7
minutes).

Broadcast ARPs, due to the FTTH's L2 security protection mechanisms, are not
passed on.  Once the MAC entry ages out of the FTTH, it has to relearn it
from the CPE (I think via ARP) before it will pass thru certain types of
traffic.

The rest of what you're describing about ARP expiration makes sense.

Thanks,

Frank

-----Original Message-----
From: Rodney Dunn [mailto:rodunn at cisco.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 8:01 PM
To: frnkblk at iname.com
Cc: 'Keegan Holley'; cisco-nsp at puck.nether.net
Subject: Re: [c-nsp] ARP strangeness

On 1/3/11 11:13 PM, Frank Bulk - iName.com wrote:
> The 7609 does stop ARPing after receiving a reply from the CPE, but the
7609
> ARPs again 7 minutes later.  One person told me off-list that Cisco
doesn't
> expire an ARP entry before checking its ARP entries by doing an ARP
request.
> Since ARP timeout is set for 8 minutes, perhaps Cisco's approach is to ARP
> the host one minute before expiration.

There were some changes to ARP at one point to provide some more
triggered capability. I don't recall exactly what that was but the
default behavior for many years was that we send a unicast arp to the
destination 60 seconds prior to the arp timer set to expire. If we don't
get a response we send it again when the timer pops and if no response
we invalidate the ARP entry.

>
> Because the FTTH product has its own smart-L2 implementation with a MAC
> address expiration time of 7 minutes, it won't forward directed or
broadcast
> ARP requests from the 7609 once the CPE's MAC address has expired from the
> FTTH's MAC table.

I wonder if you are missing one and then getting in to a race condition
of the FTTH product not forwarding. If so it would seem you need to set
the arp refresh down to a value less than the timeout of the transport gear.

   Once the CPE goes deaf, even a full DHCP exchange doesn't
> "wake up" the connection.  Only power-cycling the BEFRS41 resolves the
> issue.  The difference between a power cycle and a full DHCP exchange is
> that the BEFSR41 does an ARP request for the default router (7609) after
the
> DHCP exchange.

If you lose the arp from the 7609 and you ping from it directly we
should send a broadcast arp.

Not sure where you are getting the packet capture but a span directly
off the port is what you need to see if we don't send those two
refreshes (one 60 seconds prior to the timer expiring and the second on
the timer expiring). If we do send those and no response then data
driven from the 7609 (packets headed towards that remote IP) should
trigger the arp broadcast out again.

Rodney

>
> I've extended the MAC address expiration time of the FTTH link to 15
minutes
> (two times the 7 minutes plus 1 minute) and we'll see how that goes.
>
> Frank
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Keegan Holley [mailto:keegan.holley at sungard.com]
> Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 7:14 PM
> To:<frnkblk at iname.com>
> Cc:<cisco-nsp at puck.nether.net>
> Subject: Re: [c-nsp] ARP strangeness
>
> The 7600 should stop arping if it has gotten a reply.  What happens when
you
> ping your test CPE both from the router and from another node behind it?
> You can also run he command sh ip cef exact-match to see what the router
is
> doing with a specific source-destination ip pair. If nothing strange pops
up
> then it's probably a bug.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 3, 2011, at 12:58 PM, Frank Bulk<frnkblk at iname.com>  wrote:
>
>> We have over a thousand FTTH customers hanging off a VLAN on our 7609-S
>> running 12.2SRE3.  Those who have Linksys BEFRS41 (wired-only routers)
are
>> complaining about lack of Internet access after many hours or days of
idle
>> time (not using their PC or other devices).  Those who have Linksys
WRT54G
>> (wireless) have no complaints (my guess is that they're sending packets
> out
>> regularly).
>>
>> We replicated this in our CO and put a hub between the ONT and the
Linksys
>> CPE so that we could capture those packets.  What we're seeing in that
>> capture are directed ARP requests every 7 minutes from the 7609 to the
>> Linksys with an ARP response from the Linksys.  After many hours, the
> 7609-S
>> stops sending the ARP requests (well, at least we're not seeing it come
> in,
>> perhaps it did try).
>>
>> We currently have our ARP timeout set to 480 seconds and MAC address
table
>> aging time to 540 seconds.  Why?  We use "mac-address-table synchronize"
>> which is set to 160 seconds by default.  The recommendation from that
>> command is to set ARP three times that, so that would be 480.  But it's
> also
>> recommended that the MAC address table aging time be greater than the ARP
>> timeout, so we added another 60 seconds on top.
>>
>> Two questions:
>> - why is the 7609 sending any directed ARP requests at all, every 7
> minutes?
>> - why does it appear to stop sending them after many hours?
>>
>> I'm all ears if we should be using different expiration values, but the
>> numbers I'm using are based on reading a lot of cisco-nsp archives and
> Cisco
>> tech articles.
>>
>> Frank
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> cisco-nsp mailing list  cisco-nsp at puck.nether.net
>> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp
>> archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> cisco-nsp mailing list  cisco-nsp at puck.nether.net
> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp
> archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/