[cisco-voip] ISR G2 PVDM3 DSPs on backplane

Tue Jun 29 11:33:47 EDT 2010

here is a whitepaper that covers this issue:

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/routers/ps5854/prod_white_paper0900aecd805b9915.html

Nick's link covers the configuration.

On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 9:56 AM, Bill <bill at hitechconnection.net> wrote:

> Thanks for everyone's input. I don't believe in doing things cheap on the
> front end only to have problems down the road and look like the bad guy. I
> will just split the PRI's to different routers. Does anyone have any
> official documentation from Cisco that this is not supported or
> recommended?
> That will go along way in justifying the additional hardware.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dennis Heim [mailto:Dennis.Heim at cdw.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 8:54 AM
> To: Nick Matthews; Bill Riley
> Cc: cisco-voip
> Subject: RE: [cisco-voip] ISR G2 PVDM3 DSPs on backplane
>
> It is just bad design practice to get into to have PRIs from different
> provider on the same clocking domain. You might be able to get away with
> it,
> but really you are just putting the end-customer in a bad spot down the
> road.
>
> Dennis Heim
> Network Voice Engineer
> CDW  Advanced Technology Services
> 11711 N. Meridian Street, Suite 225
> Carmel, IN  46032
>
> 317.569.4255 Office
> 317.569.4201 Fax
> 317.694.6070 Cell
> dennis.heim at cdw.com
> cdw.com/content/solutions/unified-communications/
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cisco-voip-bounces at puck.nether.net
> [mailto:cisco-voip-bounces at puck.nether.net] On Behalf Of Nick Matthews
> Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 11:27 PM
> To: Bill Riley
> Cc: cisco-voip
> Subject: Re: [cisco-voip] ISR G2 PVDM3 DSPs on backplane
>
> I've seen this dozens of times.  Most people probably don't even realize
> they have a problem.  Some may even have two providers that have managed to
> be on the same clocking domain.  I've even seen some people with providers
> that were willing to be the slave because the provider is SIP on the other
> side of the router.
>
> The only way to provide two different voice clocking domains is by having
> two separate groups of DSPs - this means HDV cards.
>
> If you have one PRI for failover or that is not used until the first is
> filled, you can probably get away with slips.  The basic rule I've gone by
> is:  if you don't need to fax or modem over the T1, you're probably alright
> with slips if it's not your primary line.  There are chances for voice
> quality, it all depends.  It could be a cell-phone like quality issue you
> probably won't notice, or distinct chirps on the line that can be annoying.
>
> -nick
>
> On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 8:38 PM, Bill Riley <bill at hitechconnection.net>
> wrote:
> > I am not concerned with what works, and more concerned with what is
> > the best solution.
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Jason Aarons (US) [mailto:jason.aarons at us.didata.com]
> > Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 5:25 PM
> > To: Jim Reed; Bill; Beck, Christopher; cisco-voip
> > Subject: RE: [cisco-voip] ISR G2 PVDM3 DSPs on backplane
> >
> >
> >
> > While it's working, from a solution design standpoint I'm being told
> > that if the timing varies from the providers it could result in
> > problems, so design preference should be to have separate routers in this
> scenario.
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm with you, I've done it before and it did work, and I'd hate to
> > explain it to customer they need another router if the clocks are far
> apart.
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Jim Reed [mailto:jreed at swiftnews.com]
> > Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 6:09 PM
> > To: Bill; Beck, Christopher; Jason Aarons (US); cisco-voip
> > Subject: Re: [cisco-voip] ISR G2 PVDM3 DSPs on backplane
> >
> >
> >
> > I am currently using PRIs from different vendors - AT&T and Integra -
> > on the same router.  Two (2) separate VWICs on the same 2851.
>  VWIC2-1MFT-T1/E1.
> >  No problems with voice quality, errors, etc.  Configured as follows:
> > network-clock-participate wic 0
> > network-clock-participate wic 1
> > network-clock-select 1 T1 0/0/0
> > Just thought I'd pass it along.
> > --
> > Jim Reed
> > Manager of Technical Services
> > Swift Communications, Inc.
> > 970-384-9141 (Direct)
> > 775-772-7666 (Cell)
> > Sorry, no faxes accepted.
> > Please send documents by eMail.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 6/28/10 3:44 PM, "Bill" <bill at hitechconnection.net> wrote:
> >
> > Are you sure that is the case currently? I think you can have multiple
> > PRI's inside the same router on an ISR but they can not be on the same
> VWIC.
> >
> > Jason said you can not have multiple PRI's within the same router.
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: Beck, Christopher [mailto:CBeck at usg.com]
> > Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 4:40 PM
> > To: Bill; 'Jason Aarons (US)'; 'cisco-voip'
> > Subject: RE: [cisco-voip] ISR G2 PVDM3 DSPs on backplane
> >
> > This is true on the 2800/3800 today (except in the case of the NM-NDV
> > modules mentioned, but I don't think so even in that case).  It is
> > because there is a "single" PLL clocking circuit shared for all PRI's.
> > The WIC must be configured to participate in that clocking circuit
> > prior to setting up the PRI.   I can't remember  any device that could
> > handle this in 20 years of installing channel banks, muxes, routers, etc.
> >
> > That said, a lot of times it will work acceptably because the clocks
> > are close enough, especially if the local loop provider is the same on
> > all links.  But, you have to test it to know in any case.
> >
> >
> >
> > -Chris
> >
> >
> > From: cisco-voip-bounces at puck.nether.net
> > [mailto:cisco-voip-bounces at puck.nether.net] On Behalf Of Bill
> > Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 4:21 PM
> > To: 'Jason Aarons (US)'; 'cisco-voip'
> > Subject: Re: [cisco-voip] ISR G2 PVDM3 DSPs on backplane
> >
> > What? I know you could not do different Telco's on the same two port
> > card but you can't do two telco's in the same router? Is there an
> > official response to this? Is there a specific defect I can reference
> > with my Cisco AM?
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: cisco-voip-bounces at puck.nether.net
> > [mailto:cisco-voip-bounces at puck.nether.net] On Behalf Of Jason Aarons
> > (US)
> > Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 4:12 PM
> > To: cisco-voip (cisco-voip at puck.nether.net)
> > Subject: [cisco-voip] ISR G2 PVDM3 DSPs on backplane
> >
> > A TAC engineer at Cisco Live confirmed you can't have multiple voice
> > PRIs from separate telcos come into a G2 with different clocks. For
> > example you have a AT&T PRI, a Verizon PRI, a Century Link PRI, a
> > Alltell PRI, a Paetec PRI all in the same router. You can't clock the
> > backplane to  more than one source!  You'll get slips, etc audio will
> sound bad, faxes/modems will fail.
> >  Fix is separate routers.  He said he thought a 2800 with DSPs on a
> > NM-HDV module would work though.  My exact question was can you carve
> > up the backplane PVDM3 clocking for separate PRIs somehow.
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
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