[cisco-voip] cisco licensing changes...

Fri Mar 5 12:29:21 EST 2010

Cisco is not crediting you for anything extra right now.  While they have good product it's getting too expensive for a value to use type ratio, just like it is to run Microsoft products.  

We're seeing a move from Cisco to Juniper for routers and switches and then from Callmanager to Asterisk phone systems.  They're cheaper to run and customers are not paying for featues they do not use often.

--- On Fri, 3/5/10, Scott Voll <svoll.voip at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Scott Voll <svoll.voip at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [cisco-voip] cisco licensing changes...
To: "Matthew Loraditch" <MLoraditch at heliontechnologies.com>
Cc: "cisco-voip voyp list" <cisco-voip at puck.nether.net>
Date: Friday, March 5, 2010, 11:19 AM

What happens if I have a bunch of extra DLUs?  How does that move?

Why do I feel a sinking feeling about UCSS costs?

Scott

On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 8:59 AM, Matthew Loraditch <MLoraditch at heliontechnologies.com> wrote:

UCL is the I don’t want CUWL option. So if you have CUWL you don’t need to worry about it. Each app has different UCL licenses. UCCX technically is already UCL as it has always been user based. (Cisco’s phrasing not mine) UCCX licensing will not change at all.  From CM 6 to 8 will only be a paper change if you have UCSS. Enforcement won’t start till a later release and Cisco hasn’t released how that will work so we don’t know about associating users to phones or what not.

Matthew Loraditch, CCNA
1965 Greenspring Drive

Timonium, MD 21093 
support at heliontechnologies.com
(p) (410) 252-8830
(F) (443) 541-1593

Visit us at www.heliontechnologies.com 
Support Issue? Email support at heliontechnologies.com for fast assistance!

From: cisco-voip-bounces at puck.nether.net [mailto:cisco-voip-bounces at puck.nether.net] On Behalf Of Scott Voll
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 11:45 AM
To: Matthew Saskin

Cc: cisco-voip voyp list
Subject: Re: [cisco-voip] cisco licensing changes...

So help me understand this new licensing structure:

under CUWL I had only a couple options: But all users had the same licenses.  does that change under UCL?  eg.  I have ~500 users.  ~400 Unity users, and ~20 UCCx agents.  Does UCL cover all, or is each application have a different UCL?  Really the best thing for me is ala cart rather then packaged together as I'm looking at moving away from Unity (and use OCS for IM / presence) and going to Exchange leaving me only CM and UCCx which I would not want to pay for ~500 users of CCx.  Also how is moving from CM 6 to 8 going to work?  I have to associated users to every phone?  I'm Ldap integrated and I don't want to loose out because I don't have a phone associated.  

How is UCSS going to work?  We are now going to send cisco our UCL count so the UCSS changes to what ever the upgrade tells me I have for UCL licenses?  I'd like to see what the price difference is going to be to my maintenance contract costs.  <Rant> If it's anything like Unity, I'll have to move to M$ for call processing also. </Rant>

Scott

On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 6:05 AM, Matthew Saskin <msaskin at gmail.com> wrote:

Caveat: my views come from 6-7 years in the operations space at non-partners/corporate entities - I've only been with a partner for about 6 months now :)

The way UCSS works is definitely a good thing, regardless of the licensing model on top of it.

As for migration, I've heard nothing specific out of Cisco as to how it will work, but I would imagine that there's going to be some level of leniency when converting from DLU to UCL or CUWL to UCL.  For managing it correctly - I haven't seen any specifics either.  I've got a lab 8.0 system set up, but nothing using UCL to give you a "hands-on" review of how it'll work.  If I had to guess it'll tie to having phones associated to users (which is good operational policy imo) but that does wreak havoc with phones associated to multiple users, etc.  I imagine we'll see much more information in the coming months on this.

For your common area (non-user) phones, there are two specific CUWL options for this; one for analog ports and one for common spaces - both provide phone licenses only (no voicemail, etc.) and come at a pretty steep discount.

Matthew Saskin
msaskin at gmail.com
203-253-9571

July 18, 2010 - 1500m swim (in the hudson), 40k bike, 10k run
Please support the Leukemia & Lyphoma Society
http://pages.teamintraining.org/nyc/nyctri10/msaskin

On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 7:50 PM, Ed Leatherman <ealeatherman at gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks for the extra info Matt. A lot of my concerns right now are stemming from what will I need to do to manage this correctly.. Right now we provision end-users primarily just so they show up in the corporate directory - the only ones that actually log in with those accounts are contact center agents. Do I now need to audit every single phone and make sure its tied to an end-user? multiple users? One of the reasons CUWL hasn't been particularly attractive is that many of our endpoints are not tied to a user (no need for VM etc) - "open space" phones under the new licensing. Now I need to specifically identify all of these for licensing? DLU's made a lot more sense to me - a phone is a phone is a phone.

UCCX and Unity seems like should be fairly cut and dry... except the prices are going to go up. i dont need extra server nodes of anything, so no benefit to me that I can tell... higher cost for new phones/seats/mailboxes, possibly some busy work to switch over to the new licensing. Just my point of view as a customer versus a partner. 

I thought Cisco was pretty forgiving when migrating out of 4.x to the DLU structure, I hope they are similarly patient with this one.

I agree if you are buying a new system (or selling many new systems if you are a cisco partner), the new licensing probably makes a lot of sense and actually the way UCSS is sold works out much better with this system. 

On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 7:09 PM, Matthew Loraditch <MLoraditch at heliontechnologies.com> wrote:

So here's some info that wasn't in the article and might help Ed and Lelio out.

1) If you have UCSS You will automatically get upgraded when you upgrade to 7.1.5 or 8.0 and later. At the moment this is just a paper conversion the licenses aren't going to enforced immediately. That will be in future upgrades. If your UCSS user counts aren't acurate you will have issues when license enforcement happens.
2) Server classes and node counts will no longer matter. You can now get the usually cheaper more powerful HP or IBM oem servers and not pay anything extra!!
3) Lelio, the DMA tool shouldn't have anything to do with this as it will convert your phone count to DLUs which will still be the actual license's being counted by the server until a post 8.0 release.

That's some basics not convered in the posting Lelio pointed out. If you have access to the partner link Ahmed gave pretty much every question under the sun is answered there, if you don't I am happy to answer or try to find any answers i don't quite know.

Matthew Loraditch
1965 Greenspring Drive
Timonium, MD 21093
support at heliontechnologies.com
(p) (410) 252-8830
(F) (443) 541-1593

Visit us at www.heliontechnologies.com 
Support Issue? Email support at heliontechnologies.com for fast assistance! 

From: cisco-voip-bounces at puck.nether.net [cisco-voip-bounces at puck.nether.net] On Behalf Of Ahmed Elnagar [ahmed_elnagar at rayacorp.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 6:33 PM
To: Lelio Fulgenzi
Cc: cisco-voip voyp list
Subject: Re: [cisco-voip] cisco licensing changes...

It is to be noted that UCL will be the only option for 8.0 version and it will start in 7.1.5

The good thing is that it will simplify the ordering as you no longer need to quote server software, DLUs, ports, options; you will just provide the number of users and Cisco will give you the optimum.

More in the below link:
http://www.cisco.com/web/partners/sell/technology/ipc/integrated-solutions/user_connect_licensing.html 

  Best Regards;
  Ahmed Elnagar
  Senior Network PS Engineer

From: cisco-voip-bounces at puck.nether.net [mailto:cisco-voip-bounces at puck.nether.net] On Behalf Of Lelio Fulgenzi
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 12:15 AM
To: cisco-voip voyp list
Subject: [cisco-voip] cisco licensing changes...

an interesting article

http://www.nojitter.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=223101050

i wonder how the DMA tool to go from 4.1(x) to 7.1(x) is going to handle all this.

my headache just got worse.

---
Lelio Fulgenzi, B.A.
Senior Analyst (CCS) * University of Guelph * Guelph, Ontario N1G 2W1
(519) 824-4120 x56354 (519) 767-1060 FAX (JNHN)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Cooking with unix is easy. You just sed it and forget it. 
                              - LFJ (with apologies to Mr. Popeil)

Disclaimer: NOTICE The information contained in this message is confidential and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error or there are any problems please notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. Raya will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or as a result of any malicious code or virus being passed on. Views expressed in this communication are not necessarily those of Raya.If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by email, facsimile or telephone and return and/or destroy the original message. 

_______________________________________________
cisco-voip mailing list
cisco-voip at puck.nether.net
https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-voip

-- 
Ed Leatherman

_______________________________________________
cisco-voip mailing list
cisco-voip at puck.nether.net
https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-voip

_______________________________________________
cisco-voip mailing list
cisco-voip at puck.nether.net
https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-voip

-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
cisco-voip mailing list
cisco-voip at puck.nether.net
https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-voip
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-voip/attachments/20100305/942fe0cb/attachment.html>