[cisco-voip] 7940 Power Save Mode

Wes Sisk wsisk at cisco.com
Wed Mar 24 10:45:17 EDT 2010 

"The current Cisco phones aren't designed that way, but they could be. 
That's just a fact. See below for more."

I believe we are in "violent agreement" in this case.  2nd gen phones do 
not have a lower power state. 3rd gen phones do. 4th gen have the same 
if not better capabilities.  All of this hinges on the user being able 
to interrupt deep sleep, preferably from the phone UI, to initiate an 
emergency phone call.

/Wes

On Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:29:53 AM, Lawrence E. Bakst 
<ml at iridescent.org> wrote:
>> 1. I believe Wes has many test phones attached to his test switch (probably around 8). Turn all those off = 100w, and multiply that by 15 engineers with the same setup.
>>     
>
> 1. OK Wes was talking 100W per switch which is what I suspected.
>
> 2. If the late night janitor has a heart attack cleaning a cube where the phone is off, how many phones do I have to scan before I can dial 911, assuming some translation or other hack hasn't turned off 911 because of too many (we had to pay) nuisance 911 calls. My point is I am all for solving real problems and saving energy, but some of these "solutions" have black swan like ramifications. This is a tech list and I realize I'm off the path here, but really; phones with 911 changed to something else, phones turned off after hours, these are all lawsuits waiting to happen and it's the wrong thing to do morally.
>
> There is no technological reason that the phones can't sleep drawing almost no power and wake up and draw more power when needed either because someone wants to use the phone or a call is coming in. This can happen almost instantly. The current Cisco phones aren't designed that way, but they could be. That's just a fact. See below for more.
>
>   
>> 2. For the phone to receive or make calls (at least in a timely manner) it would have to stay on, and functional. Otherwise, you would have to wait for it to boot and register.
>>     
>
> 3. Completely untrue. It is certainly possible to design a power supply with switching FETs that can turn individual rails on and off. I worked with a low power SOC from one of Cisco's key semiconductor partners that could go from an almost dead  hibernate state with almost no power draw to fully running in less time then you can perceive it. The OS and apps didn't have to reboot, they were just suspended. You can see this kind of technology on many PCs and Macs today. The system sleeps drawing very little power and wakes up when a Wake-on-LAN packet is received. The same kind of thing happens every time I flip up my MacBook Pro. Think of the flip up as off hook or Display button.
>
> If anyone still doesn't believe this is all possible with today's technology please feel free to contact me off list.
>
> Best,
>
> leb
>
>
> At 6:49 PM -0400 3/23/10, Ryan Ratliff wrote:
>   
>> 8 is a conservative estimate.  I have close to 20 (from 7940 up through 9971).  Some people could have only a few.
>>
>> For our work flow it works great as if are working late then it isn't in the office.  The person that wrote the script also keyed it off of the description on the port so if there is a phone you don't want powered off it is trivial to exclude it.
>>
>> The point is not to say everyone should be doing this the way we are.  The point is to say that this is something that can be done and if it, or something similar, works for you then great.
>>
>> -Ryan
>>
>> On Mar 23, 2010, at 6:30 PM, Fuermann, Jason wrote:
>>
>> 1. I believe Wes has many test phones attached to his test switch (probably around 8). Turn all those off = 100w, and multiply that by 15 engineers with the same setup.
>>
>> 2. For the phone to receive or make calls (at least in a timely manner) it would have to stay on, and functional. Otherwise, you would have to wait for it to boot and register.
>>
>> 3. The key is not to turn off ALL the phones.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Lawrence E. Bakst [mailto:ml at iridescent.org]
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 5:32 PM
>> To: Wes Sisk; Fuermann, Jason
>> Cc: cisco-voip at puck.nether.net; Jamie Weatherhead
>> Subject: Re: [cisco-voip] 7940 Power Save Mode
>>
>> 1. Sorry I am confused about your 15 x 100W comment. I don't see how turning off 15 phones is like "turning off 15x100w bulbs for 12 hours at a time". Which phones are you talking about? You aren't saying the phones take 100W per port are you? That is more than the 802.3ad POE max of 15.4/12.95 W per port. You must mean per switch?
>>
>> 2. In an idea world Cisco phones would have a hardware architecture were most of the phone can go to sleep and just the Ethernet chip and it's associated circuitry (POE, on-hook-switch, Display button, ...) can be powered and in POE power class 1. The phones watches for a Wake-on-LAN Ethernet packet, off hook, or Display Button depress event which then powers up the rest of the phone and it moves up to POE class 2,3 or 4 if it needs to. I don't see any reason why this couldn't work for incoming calls as well. This technology (Ethernet chips with Wake-on-LAN) has been around for a long time. I wish all Cisco phones worked this way.
>>
>> 3. I would also like to point out that while powering off phones does indeed save power, there are people that work outside normal hours and if their were to be a medical emergency and all the phones are turned off at the switchport that could be a bad thing for everyone involved.
>>
>> leb
>>
>>
>> At 4:47 PM -0400 3/23/10, Wes Sisk wrote:
>>     
>>> We attached a Kill-A-Watt to the switch powering phones in an engineers cube.  When the EEM script triggers switch power consumption drops by ~100W.  x 15 engineers in our area that is turning off 15x100w bulbs for 12 hours at a time.  The major impediment with that approach is the phones are hard down and do not respond to user input.
>>>
>>> A solution that that provides similar level of power consumption while enabling user intervention would be best of both worlds.  Save power, save on cooling, save backlights, extremely nominal user impact = win.
>>>
>>> /Wes
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, March 23, 2010 1:50:53 PM, Fuermann, Jason <mailto:JBF005 at shsu.edu><JBF005 at shsu.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>       
>>>> I guess the question really is, what is the end goal of putting the rest of your phones in power save some kind of power save mode?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: Chris Ward (chrward) [<mailto:chrward at cisco.com>mailto:chrward at cisco.com]
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 12:22 PM
>>>> To: Fuermann, Jason; Ryan Ratliff (rratliff); Matthew Loraditch
>>>> Cc: <mailto:cisco-voip at puck.nether.net>cisco-voip at puck.nether.net; Jamie Weatherhead
>>>> Subject: RE: [cisco-voip] 7940 Power Save Mode
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Energywise support is not yet available on our phones. You can use Energywise to shutdown switchports, but not put the phones to sleepS YET.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> When energywise is supported on the phones, it will have the ability to put them into a deep-sleep mode. It will however not be supported on the 7940/60s.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> +Chris
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: <mailto:cisco-voip-bounces at puck.nether.net>cisco-voip-bounces at puck.nether.net [<mailto:cisco-voip-bounces at puck.nether.net>mailto:cisco-voip-bounces at puck.nether.net] On Behalf Of Fuermann, Jason
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 10:53 AM
>>>> To: Fuermann, Jason; Ryan Ratliff (rratliff); Matthew Loraditch
>>>> Cc: <mailto:cisco-voip at puck.nether.net>cisco-voip at puck.nether.net; Jamie Weatherhead
>>>> Subject: Re: [cisco-voip] 7940 Power Save Mode
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, I was thinking of EnergyWise, not EEM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: <mailto:cisco-voip-bounces at puck.nether.net>cisco-voip-bounces at puck.nether.net [<mailto:cisco-voip-bounces at puck.nether.net>mailto:cisco-voip-bounces at puck.nether.net] On Behalf Of Fuermann, Jason
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 9:43 AM
>>>> To: 'Ryan Ratliff'; Matthew Loraditch
>>>> Cc: <mailto:cisco-voip at puck.nether.net>cisco-voip at puck.nether.net; Jamie Weatherhead
>>>> Subject: Re: [cisco-voip] 7940 Power Save Mode
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm sure EEM has some interface a standard user could interact with
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: <mailto:cisco-voip-bounces at puck.nether.net>cisco-voip-bounces at puck.nether.net [<mailto:cisco-voip-bounces at puck.nether.net>mailto:cisco-voip-bounces at puck.nether.net] On Behalf Of Ryan Ratliff
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 9:42 AM
>>>> To: Matthew Loraditch
>>>> Cc: <mailto:cisco-voip at puck.nether.net>cisco-voip at puck.nether.net; Jamie Weatherhead
>>>> Subject: Re: [cisco-voip] 7940 Power Save Mode
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You telnet in to the switch and do a 'no shut'.  We control the switches here in our cubes that power all of the phones.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -Ryan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 23, 2010, at 10:31 AM, Matthew Loraditch wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How does that work if you need to work late or come in on off hours ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Matthew Loraditch, CCNA, CCDA
>>>> 1965 Greenspring Drive
>>>>
>>>> Timonium, MD 21093
>>>> <mailto:support at heliontechnologies.com>support at heliontechnologies.com
>>>> (p) (410) 252-8830
>>>> (F) (443) 541-1593
>>>>
>>>> Visit us at <http://www.heliontechnologies.com/>www.heliontechnologies.com
>>>> Support Issue? Email <mailto:support at heliontechnologies.com>support at heliontechnologies.com for fast assistance!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: <mailto:cisco-voip-bounces at puck.nether.net>cisco-voip-bounces at puck.nether.net [<mailto:cisco-voip-bounces at puck.nether.net>mailto:cisco-voip-bounces at puck.nether.net] On Behalf Of Wes Sisk
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 10:27 AM
>>>> To: Matthew Ballard
>>>> Cc: <mailto:cisco-voip at puck.nether.net>cisco-voip at puck.nether.net; Jamie Weatherhead
>>>> Subject: Re: [cisco-voip] 7940 Power Save Mode
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We implement an alternate powersave method on the phones at our desks. We use EEM script on switch to shutdown power to all non-critical phones outside business hours.  EEM script is available in the EEM script repository on <http://Cisco.com>Cisco.com.
>>>>         
>>>> /Wes
>>>>
>>>> On Monday, March 22, 2010 12:48:36 PM, Matthew Ballard <mailto:mballard at otis.edu><mballard at otis.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The only reason the 7970 would need a power save mode is to turn off the backlight.  Since the 7940 doesn't have a backlight, a power save mode would save little to no power anyways.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Matthew Ballard
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: <mailto:cisco-voip-bounces at puck.nether.net>cisco-voip-bounces at puck.nether.net [<mailto:cisco-voip-bounces at puck.nether.net>mailto:cisco-voip-bounces at puck.nether.net] On Behalf Of Jamie Weatherhead
>>>> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 9:42 AM
>>>> To: <mailto:cisco-voip at puck.nether.net>cisco-voip at puck.nether.net
>>>> Subject: [cisco-voip] 7940 Power Save Mode
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Afternoon all,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Is it at all possible to set a 7940 phone to power save mode?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am able to achieve this for a 7970 phone by adjusting the 'Display Idle Timeout' setting on the phone device configuration page. However, the 7940 phone doesn't appear to have these settings as seen below:
>>>>
>>>> <image001.png>
>>>>
>>>> Any help would be appreciated.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jamie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Consider the environment - Think before you print
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>>>>
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>> --
>> leb at iridescent.org
>>
>>
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>
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