<html><head><style type='text/css'>p { margin: 0; }</style></head><body><div style='font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10pt; color: #000000'>It's the same, but different. I think Cisco reacts a bit quicker to bugs and threats than MS does. It could be unsubstantiated, but I think it's true. So Cisco apps running ontop of Windows in my opinion are a bit more hardy than an MS App in my opinion. That's not always the case, but most of the time it is.<br><br>On top of that, if MS comes out with a solution that is 10x cheaper than Cisco's, one of three things is going to happen:<br><ul><li>Cisco will come out with a powerpoint showing all the hidden costs of an MS deployment.</li><li>Cisco will lower their price</li><li>Cisco will loose market share quickly</li></ul>Many enterprises are watching the MS solution as it matures and will drop a Cisco deployment on a moments notice for many of the things you mention below. Even if it does mean losing a few features or only getting 4 nines instead of 5.<br><br>Cisco will not be able to turn a blind eye on this. MS is likely going to be in this for the long run and will probably even lose money in the short term to get the market share.<br><br>Remember O/S2 vs Windows? ;)<br><br><br>---<br>Lelio Fulgenzi, B.A.<br>Senior Analyst (CCS) * University of Guelph * Guelph, Ontario N1G 2W1<br>(519) 824-4120 x56354 (519) 767-1060 FAX (JNHN)<br>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<br>"Bad grammar makes me [sic]" - Tshirt<br><br><br>----- Original Message -----<br>From: "Jason Aarons (US)" <jason.aarons@us.didata.com><br>To: "Lelio Fulgenzi" <lelio@uoguelph.ca>, "Scott Voll" <svoll.voip@gmail.com><br>Cc: cisco-voip@puck.nether.net<br>Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 12:54:48 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern<br>Subject: RE: [cisco-voip] End of the PBX<br><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The irony here I’ve ran CallManger under Windows for years.
Never had it go down except for having to apply Cisco upgrades every couple
weeks (remember CallManager 3x, 4x you had a bug fix every 4 weeks). When CallManager
did go down another server took over and it was mostly transparent to end
users. I went thru Welchia/Nachia and all the other worms and never had an outage,
I monitored security bulletins from Symantec and ISS and applied security
updates from vendors regardless of platforms (Unix, Linux, Windows, OS X).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">You can get hardware that is everything hot swappable like the
IBM x440/SAN and run non-stop Windows, Linux, Unix or VMWare ESX, etc.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I’m used to see more application issues (memory leaks, reboots
in 248 days) then Windows or Linux core OS itself going down once and a while!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Going back to the original question, will CTOs choose to pay
more to have Cisco over Microsoft or will they force a move to OCS as it would
reduce their IT budget ? I can see it happening in smaller shop first that
couldn’t afford SmartNet or CallManager to start with. This is like when Nortel
was Legacy and Cisco could save you money with this open-platform Selsius
Communications Box…</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";"> cisco-voip-bounces@puck.nether.net
[mailto:cisco-voip-bounces@puck.nether.net] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Lelio Fulgenzi<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 17, 2009 12:20 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Scott Voll<br>
<b>Cc:</b> cisco-voip@puck.nether.net<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [cisco-voip] End of the PBX</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: black;">Good points. I agree. I think
MS will have to concentrate on hardening their systems before people will jump
to running their PBX on it. Then again, if they can tolerate the system going
down once and a while, maybe they won't care.<br>
<br>
The other thing is, as far as I know, MS is not going to be producing hard
phones. Something to consider.<br>
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---<br>
Lelio Fulgenzi, B.A.<br>
Senior Analyst (CCS) * University of Guelph * Guelph, Ontario N1G 2W1<br>
(519) 824-4120 x56354 (519) 767-1060 FAX (JNHN)<br>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<br>
"Bad grammar makes me [sic]" - Tshirt<br>
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----- Original Message -----<br>
From: "Scott Voll" <svoll.voip@gmail.com><br>
To: "Tim Ritter" <timritter@gmail.com><br>
Cc: cisco-voip@puck.nether.net<br>
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 12:05:04 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern<br>
Subject: Re: [cisco-voip] End of the PBX</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: black;">I don't know if I can give you much.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: black;">M$ does do a good job of Presence, and IM. I think that
Unified messaging still has a little to be desired, but in 3 to 5 years I think
they could nail that down. I do have a school using Exchange 2k7 for
there UM system. works well for them. We use OCS for Presence and
IM and am working on integrating it with CM when I have time.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: black;">I don't think I like the idea of runing my call processing on M$
now that I'm on the appliance based CM. But that doesn't mean that there
won't be a mix and match of systems in the future if both M$ and Ci$co don't do
things to make one system or the other, truely the best.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: black;">MS doesn't currently have any contact center stuff to my knowledge
so that will have to come if they really want to contend in the PBX market.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: black;">just my 2 cents</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: black;">Scott</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: black;">On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:12 AM, Tim Ritter <<a href="mailto:timritter@gmail.com" target="_blank">timritter@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: black;">I have been
looking all over for a forum to ask other Cisco PBX people about Microsoft and
their PBX plans... this is the only one I can find that seems right. I hope you
will give me your opinions and not kill me for not asking a technical
question... </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: black;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: black;"><a href="http://www.techworld.com.au/article/275963/microsoft_rounds_voice_assaul" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">http://www.techworld.com.au/article/275963/microsoft_rounds_voice_assaul</span></a></span><span style="font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: black;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: black;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: black;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: black;">After reading
this article it is obvious to me Microsoft intends to replace the PBX. The
timeline looks like 3 to 5 years before they are in a position to fully replace
the PBX and go head to head with the leaders of the PBX industry. </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: black;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: black;">My company is a
MS house and this type system will gain a lot of interest especially since it
is "free", not free as in free beer but free as in you already pay
for it in your Microsoft CAL enterprise licenses so why not use it and
decommission the Costly PBX... </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: black;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: black;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: black;">Your thoughts
and sugestions about how to combat this...</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: black;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">Tim</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: black;"><br>
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