<html><head><style type='text/css'>p { margin: 0; }</style></head><body><div style='font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10pt; color: #000000'>The biggest issue with the 6608s was that they still require CatOS and that they are end of support in August this year.<br><br>Not sure what you mean by putting eggs in the CUE/SRSV basket... what's SRSV?<br><br>SIP trunking is another thread altogether... ;)<br><span><br><span name="x"></span>---<br>Lelio Fulgenzi, B.A.<br>Senior Analyst (CCS) * University of Guelph * Guelph, Ontario N1G 2W1<br>(519) 824-4120 x56354 (519) 767-1060 FAX (ANNU)<br>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<br>Cooking with unix is easy. You just sed it and forget it. <br> - LFJ (with apologies to Mr. Popeil)<br><span name="x"></span><br></span><br><hr id="zwchr"><b>From: </b>"Nate VanMaren" <VanMarenNP@ldschurch.org><br><b>To: </b>"Lelio Fulgenzi" <lelio@uoguelph.ca><br><b>Cc: </b>cisco-voip@puck.nether.net<br><b>Sent: </b>Tuesday, February 7, 2012 11:44:44 AM<br><b>Subject: </b>RE: [cisco-voip] ensuring component compatibility with IOS version<br><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Why would you get rid of some of the best and most stable gateways ever? 6608s were great!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Be careful about putting eggs in the CUE/SRSV basket.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I am hoping that when it comes time to replace my 3845 it will be SIP trunking time, so the DSP cost would diminish.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Lelio Fulgenzi [mailto:lelio@uoguelph.ca]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 07, 2012 9:21 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nate VanMaren<br>
<b>Cc:</b> cisco-voip@puck.nether.net<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [cisco-voip] ensuring component compatibility with IOS version</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black">I have a project in the works to migrate some MGCP gateways from 6608's (stop laughing Scott) to the 3945s. I'm thinking now is the
time to migrate to 15.x(y)M especially because of the shorter support cycle on the T code.<br>
<br>
My biggest issue will be to ensure that the Unity Express modules will support the SRST version in that IOS code.<br>
<br>
Thanks again.<br>
<br>
---<br>
Lelio Fulgenzi, B.A.<br>
Senior Analyst (CCS) * University of Guelph * Guelph, Ontario N1G 2W1<br>
(519) 824-4120 x56354 (519) 767-1060 FAX (ANNU)<br>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<br>
Cooking with unix is easy. You just sed it and forget it. <br>
- LFJ (with apologies to Mr. Popeil)<br>
<br>
</span></p>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center" align="center"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black">
<hr id="zwchr" size="2" width="100%" align="center">
</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black">"Nate VanMaren" <<a href="mailto:VanMarenNP@ldschurch.org" target="_blank">VanMarenNP@ldschurch.org</a>><br>
<b>To: </b>"Lelio Fulgenzi" <<a href="mailto:lelio@uoguelph.ca" target="_blank">lelio@uoguelph.ca</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b><a href="mailto:cisco-voip@puck.nether.net" target="_blank">cisco-voip@puck.nether.net</a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Tuesday, February 7, 2012 11:03:41 AM<br>
<b>Subject: </b>RE: [cisco-voip] ensuring component compatibility with IOS version<br>
<br>
<br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I thought you were getting it.</span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">There’s no reason to “stick with T code” T and M are the same, so if you’re not needing new features in a newer release ( like 15.2) going with the 15.1 latest
which happens to be called a M release is great.</span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">15.1.4 does have 100 rules.</span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Also, I had trouble with 15.2 last week running SIP, it would stop sending media after a phone did a transfer. I back reved to 15.1.4M and it worked. I did
not have time to figure out what the problem was.</span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">-Nate</span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"> Lelio Fulgenzi
<a href="mailto:[mailto:lelio@uoguelph.ca]" target="_blank">[mailto:lelio@uoguelph.ca]</a> <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 07, 2012 8:58 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nate VanMaren<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:cisco-voip@puck.nether.net" target="_blank">cisco-voip@puck.nether.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [cisco-voip] ensuring component compatibility with IOS version</span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black"><br>
Thanks Nate, this is helping.<br>
<br>
So because there is/was no 15.1.4T, we'll have to go to the next T version if we want to stick with T code. The release dates seem to help now as well.<br>
<br>
15.1(3)T Release Date: 17/NOV/2010<br>
15.1(4)M Release Date: 25/MAR/2011<br>
15.2(1)T Release Date: 22/JUL/2011<br>
<br>
Of course, with this change, there's really no reason to go with the T code unless there's some new feature that you need that hasn't made it to the M code. And now it's easier to distinguish that.<br>
<br>
Anyone with 15.2(1)T want to confirm that you can add 100 voice translation rules?</span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center" align="center"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black">
<hr size="2" width="100%" align="center">
</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black">"Nate VanMaren" <<a href="mailto:VanMarenNP@ldschurch.org" target="_blank">VanMarenNP@ldschurch.org</a>><br>
<b>To: </b>"Lelio Fulgenzi" <<a href="mailto:lelio@uoguelph.ca" target="_blank">lelio@uoguelph.ca</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b><a href="mailto:cisco-voip@puck.nether.net" target="_blank">cisco-voip@puck.nether.net</a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Tuesday, February 7, 2012 10:25:12 AM<br>
<b>Subject: </b>RE: [cisco-voip] ensuring component compatibility with IOS version<br>
<br>
</span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Yes there was only M releases of 15.0.</span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">In 15.1</span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">15.1.1T</span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">15.1.2T</span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">15.1.3T</span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">15.1.4M</span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">So they developed the features and stability in 15.1(1-3) then called it M in 15.1.4M, with features increasing thought the releases.</span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">-Nate</span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"> Lelio Fulgenzi
<a href="mailto:[mailto:lelio@uoguelph.ca]" target="_blank">[mailto:lelio@uoguelph.ca]</a>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 07, 2012 8:19 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nate VanMaren<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:cisco-voip@puck.nether.net" target="_blank">cisco-voip@puck.nether.net</a>; Matthew Loraditch<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [cisco-voip] ensuring component compatibility with IOS version</span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black">It's confusing to say the least, especially when the first M version was 15.0 and the first T version was 15.1 and that figure 4
is mislabeled.<br>
<br>
It almost sounds like anything in 15.(x)M will be in 15.(x+1)T.<br>
<br>
Of course, I'm likely wrong, but it's just not clearly documented.<br>
<br>
---<br>
Lelio Fulgenzi, B.A.<br>
Senior Analyst (CCS) * University of Guelph * Guelph, Ontario N1G 2W1<br>
(519) 824-4120 x56354 (519) 767-1060 FAX (ANNU)<br>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<br>
Cooking with unix is easy. You just sed it and forget it. <br>
- LFJ (with apologies to Mr. Popeil)</span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center" align="center"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black">
<hr size="2" width="100%" align="center">
</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black">"Nate VanMaren" <<a href="mailto:VanMarenNP@ldschurch.org" target="_blank">VanMarenNP@ldschurch.org</a>><br>
<b>To: </b>"Lelio Fulgenzi" <<a href="mailto:lelio@uoguelph.ca" target="_blank">lelio@uoguelph.ca</a>>, "Matthew Loraditch" <<a href="mailto:MLoraditch@heliontechnologies.com" target="_blank">MLoraditch@heliontechnologies.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b><a href="mailto:cisco-voip@puck.nether.net" target="_blank">cisco-voip@puck.nether.net</a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Tuesday, February 7, 2012 10:02:59 AM<br>
<b>Subject: </b>RE: [cisco-voip] ensuring component compatibility with IOS version</span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">Lelio,</span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">The T and M are the same train. Say something comes out in 17.1.0M anything with a number greater than that will have the feature 7.1.5T or 17.1.9M.</span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">M just means they think you should be able to stay on the code longer.</span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">This is completely different from what T used to mean, but I believe they've gotten rid of the GD/LD/ED stuff.</span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">-Nate</span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center" align="center"><span style="color:black">
<hr size="2" width="100%" align="center">
</span></div>
<div id="divRpF187068">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">
<a href="mailto:cisco-voip-bounces@puck.nether.net" target="_blank">cisco-voip-bounces@puck.nether.net</a> [cisco-voip-bounces@puck.nether.net] on behalf of Lelio Fulgenzi [lelio@uoguelph.ca]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 06, 2012 1:08 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Matthew Loraditch<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:cisco-voip@puck.nether.net" target="_blank">cisco-voip@puck.nether.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [cisco-voip] ensuring component compatibility with IOS version</span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black">While that does explain how they handle the trains differently, still doesn't help with respect to knowing for sure whether a module
is supported in a specific train.<br>
<br>
I recalled a similar discussion we had with the translation limit and how it was increased in a particular M train but not sure in which T train it was in. This link was shared:<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/iosswrel/ps8802/ps10587/ps10591/ps10621/qa_c67_561940.html" target="_blank">http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/iosswrel/ps8802/ps10587/ps10591/ps10621/qa_c67_561940.html</a><br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/iosswrel/ps8802/ps10587/ps10591/ps10621/qa_c67_561940.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/iosswrel/ps8802/ps10587/ps10591/ps10621/qa_c67_561940.pdf</a> (PDF)<br>
<br>
This link explains things a bit more, but still, does not clearly indicate in which T train version a certain M train feature is included.<br>
<br>
It looks as though both trains will incorporate new features that may or may not be included in the other train. Which simply adds to the confusion.<br>
<br>
While it's pretty easy to look up IOS commands in references, module support is not as easy.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
---<br>
Lelio Fulgenzi, B.A.<br>
Senior Analyst (CCS) * University of Guelph * Guelph, Ontario N1G 2W1<br>
(519) 824-4120 x56354 (519) 767-1060 FAX (ANNU)<br>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<br>
Cooking with unix is easy. You just sed it and forget it. <br>
- LFJ (with apologies to Mr. Popeil)</span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center" align="center"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black">
<hr size="2" width="100%" align="center">
</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black">"Matthew Loraditch" <<a href="mailto:MLoraditch@heliontechnologies.com" target="_blank">MLoraditch@heliontechnologies.com</a>><br>
<b>To: </b>"Lelio Fulgenzi" <<a href="mailto:lelio@uoguelph.ca" target="_blank">lelio@uoguelph.ca</a>>,
<a href="mailto:cisco-voip@puck.nether.net" target="_blank">cisco-voip@puck.nether.net</a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Monday, February 6, 2012 12:25:30 PM<br>
<b>Subject: </b>RE: [cisco-voip] ensuring component compatibility with IOS version</span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Take a look here, trains don’t work like they used to:</span><span style="color:black">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><a href="http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/iosswrel/ps8802/ps5460/product_bulletin_c25-557281_ps5854_Products_Bulletin.html" target="_blank">http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/iosswrel/ps8802/ps5460/product_bulletin_c25-557281_ps5854_Products_Bulletin.html</a></span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">You should be fine, that was a brand new ISR G2 part, and no EOL has been announced.</span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Matthew G. Loraditch - CCVP, CCNA, CCDA<br>
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><br>
1965 Greenspring Drive</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Timonium, MD 21093</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><br>
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fax. 410.252.9284 <br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">
<a href="mailto:cisco-voip-bounces@puck.nether.net" target="_blank">cisco-voip-bounces@puck.nether.net</a>
<a href="mailto:[mailto:cisco-voip-bounces@puck.nether.net]" target="_blank">[mailto:cisco-voip-bounces@puck.nether.net]</a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Lelio Fulgenzi<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 06, 2012 12:01 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:cisco-voip@puck.nether.net" target="_blank">cisco-voip@puck.nether.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [cisco-voip] ensuring component compatibility with IOS version</span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black">What's the easiest way to ensure a component is compatible with the IOS version you are running?<br>
<br>
For example, ISM-SRE-300-K9 says minimum version is 15.0(1)M, but I want to know which T train it's supported in. Rather than trying to figure out which T train version 15.0(1)M was included in, I'd like to just see a compatibility tool.
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All I can find is feature navigator and that doesn't list components.<br>
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Thoughts?<br>
<br>
---<br>
Lelio Fulgenzi, B.A.<br>
Senior Analyst (CCS) * University of Guelph * Guelph, Ontario N1G 2W1<br>
(519) 824-4120 x56354 (519) 767-1060 FAX (ANNU)<br>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<br>
Cooking with unix is easy. You just sed it and forget it. <br>
- LFJ (with apologies to Mr. Popeil)</span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
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