<div dir="ltr">Yea, I almost always do single NIC because of this. Not many customers have a separate DMZ-Outside and DMZ-Inside. If they do, I go with the dual-NIC design.<div><br></div><div>Almost always when I see a dual-NIC implementation done, they've got the inside NIC directly attached to the inside network. It seems like a lot of people prefer the dual-NIC due to how easy that setup is not realizing the security implementations.</div><div><br></div><div>I can count on one hand the number of true dual-NIC dual-DMZ Expressway setups I've seen in the wild.</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Apr 30, 2019 at 12:13 PM Anthony Holloway <<a href="mailto:avholloway%2Bcisco-voip@gmail.com">avholloway+cisco-voip@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Ryan,<div><br></div><div>Do you have any insight as to whether or not it's common for Firewalls in the field to already have more than one DMZ defined? In my limited experience, I have never seen it done, and I am having to have that second DMZ created to support Expressway. For that reason, I actually tend to think the single NIC approach is better, although, the NAT reflection could be a limitation of some firewalls.</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Apr 30, 2019 at 11:09 AM Ryan Huff <<a href="mailto:ryanhuff@outlook.com" target="_blank">ryanhuff@outlook.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Adam,</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
I certainly didn't mean to imply the, "Expressway Edge on a Stick" method doesn't work, though out of pure technical curiosity, I would be curious as to what exists in your environment that would make a " single NIC" Expressway Edge deployment more preferred
than "dual NICs" (not that I expect you would or could say). I can think of very few reasons that a single NIC edge would be more ideal than a dual NIC edge (outside of the infosec team just not wanting to screw with the firewall, or production not being able
to sustain a maintenance window); its easier to troubleshoot, easier to install, easier to support and easier to secure.<br>
<br>
Though, I suspect I'm, "preaching to the choir", lol 😉. All good my friend.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Thanks,</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Ryan<br>
</div>
<div id="gmail-m_-2984325092962514901gmail-m_6919030558253542370Signature">
<div>
<div id="gmail-m_-2984325092962514901gmail-m_6919030558253542370appendonsend"></div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id="gmail-m_-2984325092962514901gmail-m_6919030558253542370divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Pawlowski, Adam <<a href="mailto:ajp26@buffalo.edu" target="_blank">ajp26@buffalo.edu</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 30, 2019 11:36 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Ryan Huff'<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:cisco-voip@puck.nether.net" target="_blank">cisco-voip@puck.nether.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [cisco-voip] Expressway E Firewall Rule Activation</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div lang="EN-US">
<div class="gmail-m_-2984325092962514901gmail-m_6919030558253542370x_WordSection1">
<p class="gmail-m_-2984325092962514901gmail-m_6919030558253542370x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Ryan,</span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-2984325092962514901gmail-m_6919030558253542370x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-2984325092962514901gmail-m_6919030558253542370x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">The “tl;dr” is that we were sort of given the recommendation by Cisco to just run it with the single interface given our environment and requirements, and hasn’t given us any trouble that I can recall.</span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-2984325092962514901gmail-m_6919030558253542370x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-2984325092962514901gmail-m_6919030558253542370x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Long story is … </span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-2984325092962514901gmail-m_6919030558253542370x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"><br>
Our environment ends up being the driver for a lot of this, as it is sort of a historic design from the early internet, with just about everything on public address space, and various services and networks secured behind firewalls as needed from internal and
external alike. </span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-2984325092962514901gmail-m_6919030558253542370x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-2984325092962514901gmail-m_6919030558253542370x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">In the dual interface design, the outside interface sits in a “DMZ” with a firewall, which we don’t have available explicitly. There is a border firewall but that isn’t really its function. The inside leg has to sit somewhere as
well, which is a place that doesn’t exist. </span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-2984325092962514901gmail-m_6919030558253542370x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"><br>
We did have a competitor’s border proxy become compromised in the past due to a software update, and this model where the inside wasn’t properly secured – and given our current VMWare topology, creating another zone to hairpin traffic around to separate that
inside interface wasn’t in the cards. Not to mention the annoyance of trying to setup split routes on this device to allow some traffic to go in, some to go out, in an environment that is MRA only.</span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-2984325092962514901gmail-m_6919030558253542370x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-2984325092962514901gmail-m_6919030558253542370x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">If you trust the E enough never to be a bad actor, then you could put that interface in the same zone as your other collaboration appliances, like the Expressway C, but, we didn’t want to do that either really.</span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-2984325092962514901gmail-m_6919030558253542370x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-2984325092962514901gmail-m_6919030558253542370x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Given that, we did have a call with Cisco to discuss this, and with representation from the Expressway group they recommended that we stick with the single interface design. That was based on the public addressing (so we could avoid
NAT reflection) and that despite the pipe dream of everyone wanting HD video calling and mobile client access, we didn’t see that we’d be pushing that much traffic.</span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-2984325092962514901gmail-m_6919030558253542370x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-2984325092962514901gmail-m_6919030558253542370x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">As it is, the E clusters sit in a collaboration DMZ, where they are independent from any of our other appliances and treated like any other host on our network. Our application firewalls do not allow anything in from the Expressway
E since the C tunnels to it, so really the only thing lacking from a security standpoint there could be containment of that host, but, we chose to guard from it instead.
</span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-2984325092962514901gmail-m_6919030558253542370x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-2984325092962514901gmail-m_6919030558253542370x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Since we installed it back on X8.8 or whatever, I’d noted that rebooting the appliance does not reapply the internal rules, which can easily be forgotten, and would need to be remembered if you run a VMWare HA policy that restarts
the guest. </span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-2984325092962514901gmail-m_6919030558253542370x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-2984325092962514901gmail-m_6919030558253542370x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">That all being said the worst that we have seen are various SSH attempts (on any port, the zone tunnel, administrative SSH, doesn’t matter) until the rules are put back up. We could tighten them on the border once that becomes available
to do so.</span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-2984325092962514901gmail-m_6919030558253542370x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-2984325092962514901gmail-m_6919030558253542370x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">The B2BUA is invoked on calls within the appliances sometimes which can cause some confusion with attempting to read logging if need be, but it hasn’t otherwise caused us any trouble.</span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-2984325092962514901gmail-m_6919030558253542370x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-2984325092962514901gmail-m_6919030558253542370x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Adam</span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-2984325092962514901gmail-m_6919030558253542370x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-2984325092962514901gmail-m_6919030558253542370x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-2984325092962514901gmail-m_6919030558253542370x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<div style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0in 0in 0in 4pt">
<div>
<div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="gmail-m_-2984325092962514901gmail-m_6919030558253542370x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<b>From:</b> Ryan Huff <<a href="mailto:ryanhuff@outlook.com" target="_blank">ryanhuff@outlook.com</a>> <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 30, 2019 10:13 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Pawlowski, Adam <<a href="mailto:ajp26@buffalo.edu" target="_blank">ajp26@buffalo.edu</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:cisco-voip@puck.nether.net" target="_blank">cisco-voip@puck.nether.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [cisco-voip] Expressway E Firewall Rule Activation</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="gmail-m_-2984325092962514901gmail-m_6919030558253542370x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
</p>
<p class="gmail-m_-2984325092962514901gmail-m_6919030558253542370x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 12pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
That seems odd and not been my experience. Let me ask; why are you using the application firewall rather than the actual firewall (another reason all our edge’s should be using dual interfaces with LAN1 and LAN2 in their own separate security zones)? Is there
a reason you have to, in other words?<span style="font-size:12pt"></span></p>
<div>
<p class="gmail-m_-2984325092962514901gmail-m_6919030558253542370x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
Thanks,</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="gmail-m_-2984325092962514901gmail-m_6919030558253542370x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="gmail-m_-2984325092962514901gmail-m_6919030558253542370x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
Ryan</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="gmail-m_-2984325092962514901gmail-m_6919030558253542370x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 12pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<br>
On Apr 30, 2019, at 08:49, Pawlowski, Adam <<a href="mailto:ajp26@buffalo.edu" target="_blank">ajp26@buffalo.edu</a>> wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p class="gmail-m_-2984325092962514901gmail-m_6919030558253542370x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
Figured I’d also ask this question</p>
<p class="gmail-m_-2984325092962514901gmail-m_6919030558253542370x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
</p>
<p class="gmail-m_-2984325092962514901gmail-m_6919030558253542370x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
I note that it seems like any time I reboot an Expressway E, I have to go and re-activate all the firewall rules. They don’t seem to activate automatically.
</p>
<p class="gmail-m_-2984325092962514901gmail-m_6919030558253542370x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
</p>
<p class="gmail-m_-2984325092962514901gmail-m_6919030558253542370x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
Is there something I missed or is this really what’s necessary?</p>
<p class="gmail-m_-2984325092962514901gmail-m_6919030558253542370x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
</p>
<p class="gmail-m_-2984325092962514901gmail-m_6919030558253542370x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
Adam</p>
<p class="gmail-m_-2984325092962514901gmail-m_6919030558253542370x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
</p>
<p class="gmail-m_-2984325092962514901gmail-m_6919030558253542370x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p class="gmail-m_-2984325092962514901gmail-m_6919030558253542370x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">_______________________________________________<br>
cisco-voip mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:cisco-voip@puck.nether.net" target="_blank">cisco-voip@puck.nether.net</a><br>
<a href="https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpuck.nether.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fcisco-voip&data=02%7C01%7C%7C53c6d0eb53664c52fa1f08d6cd818e07%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636922353647552666&sdata=1IXxZp8QQ0FzhW3GAGY%2F1k2nnUSYA3QlKHlEABhE5PY%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpuck.nether.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fcisco-voip&data=02%7C01%7C%7C3fcc9eb351fe41b70dfc08d6cd6a4a65%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636922253726465693&sdata=72kYzwChhoFD14H6a6mRTn4TdHUcMDcFWrMSXpRo%2Btw%3D&reserved=0</a></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
cisco-voip mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:cisco-voip@puck.nether.net" target="_blank">cisco-voip@puck.nether.net</a><br>
<a href="https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-voip" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-voip</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
cisco-voip mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:cisco-voip@puck.nether.net" target="_blank">cisco-voip@puck.nether.net</a><br>
<a href="https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-voip" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-voip</a><br>
</blockquote></div>