[f-nsp] Setup a WatchGuard Active-Active firecluster on FastIron SX-800 and/or Super-X

Thu Oct 20 14:53:50 EDT 2011

Hi Robert,

Our NLB servers were directly connected to the SX800 cores which was also
the router for this VLAN. We tried every possible configuration in NLB to
get it working, but all the load ended up on a single server.

All 7.x releases prior to 7202d are painfully broken. Upgrading is highly
recommended.

- Raja

On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 1:27 PM, Robert Toth <rtoth at iperceptions.com> wrote:

> Hi Raja,****
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks for the quick answer…  I do have some insights here with a new
> question:****
>
> ** **
>
> First of all, was your NLB cluster setup as multicast, IGMP multicast, or
> unicast?  The reason I ask is that we are using several NLB clusters setup
> for UNICAST (as we have dedicated NIC’s for NLB in each server, plus one for
> normal LAN activities), and it’s working just fine.  No need for any static
> ARP or MAC in this situation from what we’ve seen.  Either that, or I’m not
> seeing something here that I need to look into?  We are NOT using the switch
> for routing any NLB traffic, that is handled solely by our firewalls.  ***
> *
>
> ** **
>
> We run easily into the 30/70K packets per second on the clusters, and they
> all seem to be getting their fair share of load..  ****
>
> ** **
>
> That being said, I can confirm that STATIC ARP on the SX’s have to be
> associated to a single port (you can’t enter it unless you specify one and
> only one port on the switch).  Which is kind of dumb actually.  ‘arp {static
> entry #} {IP address} {MAC address} eth {PORT/SLOT}’ on an SX-800 or
> Super-X.  You can NOT get away from NOT SPECIFYING the ‘eth SLOT/PORT’
> parameter.****
>
> ** **
>
> On a Cisco – you simply do an ‘arp 192.168.0.1 xxxx.xxxx.xxxx arpa’  to set
> the static arp ..  then add your static mac to the port(s) you need.****
>
> Same goes for a Extreme Summit -  ‘configured iparp add 192.168.0.1
> xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx’  to set the static arp… then add the static MAC to each
> port.****
>
> ** **
>
> I can’t understand why the Foundry would force the ARP to bind to a PORT on
> a specific MAC..   On a specific VLAN I could understand (broadcast domain
> makes sense).  ****
>
> ** **
>
> Inside of a vlan, I can set a static arp inspection  ‘arp 192.168.0.1
> xxxx.xxxx.xxxx inspect’   but that doesn’t really set a static arp entry.*
> ***
>
> ** **
>
> Over-simplifying it a bit:  IP address  goes to ARP lookup which returns a
> MAC address.  MAC lookup returns which port(s) it’s been seen on / been
> bound to.  Send out the packet for that IP to the port(s) you found.
> Foundry’s method circumvents the MAC lookup by forcing the ARP lookup to do
> BOTH (saving a MAC lookup).  But then that prevents the box from playing
> nice with NLB or other redundant / load-sharing devices that it’s plugged
> into.  That’s a big functional hole in my view.****
>
> ** **
>
> Anyways, if anyone from Foundry/Brocade looks at this post, and can shed
> some light as to why this is done instead of how some of the other big boys
> do it, I’d be really interested in hearing the answer..****
>
> ** **
>
> Raja,  thanks for the heads-up on the 07.2.02d  release… I’ll be upgrading
> soon – I tend to follow the “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” routine..  But
> I gather from your comment that something is INDEED BROKE..  so it needs
> fixing…  Correct?****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> I’d seriously like to see what IronWare 07.3.xx  will bring – and if the
> static ARP functionality will now play nice with others and let our
> redundant / load-sharing solutions just work the way they should…****
>
> ** **
>
> Best regards,****
>
> ** **
>
> Robert****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Raja Subramanian [mailto:rajasuperman at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 19, 2011 6:56 AM
> *To:* Robert Toth
> *Cc:* foundry-nsp at puck.nether.net
> *Subject:* Re: [f-nsp] Setup a WatchGuard Active-Active firecluster on
> FastIron SX-800 and/or Super-X****
>
> ** **
>
> Hi,****
>
> We had exactly the same problem with NLB on SX and FCX. All traffic would
> go to a single server, and the setup was never stable enough for production.
> ****
>
> After a Brocade TAC case which went on for nearly 12 months, we concluded
> that multi port static ARP is not supported on the FastIron platform. Only
> multi port static MAC is supported.****
>
> You need to run L2 code on FastIron to get NLB, etc to work correctly.****
>
> We are hanging dual FCXs stacked and running L2 code. These are connected
> redundantly to dual SX800 L3 cores. Servers, firewalls, etc are connected to
> the FCX stack.****
>
> Suggest you run 7202d on your SX boxes. Don't run any other 7.x code
> release at this time.****
>
> - Raja****
>
> On Oct 19, 2011 2:14 PM, "Robert Toth" <rtoth at iperceptions.com> wrote:****
>
> Hi everyone,****
>
>  ****
>
> Was just referred to this list, hopefully somebody can help me with a very
> stubborn problem here..****
>
>  ****
>
> I have been fighting for a few months now to get my WatchGuard
> Firecluster's up and running with stability on both a Super-X and SX-800.
> Here's a quick overview:****
>
>  ****
>
> Datacenter:  SX-800 with V07.2.00 Full Layer 3 software, redundant mgmt &
> fabric, and eight  424C modules.****
>
> This is our core switch that handles all network connectivity to our
> datacenter servers.****
>
>  ****
>
> 1 Layer-3 segment (VLAN-9) that is primary gateway for INTERNAL remote
> network routing across a 2GB dedicated fiber trunk to head office.****
>
> Multiple VLAN's used to partition both external and internal network  as
> Layer-2 segments, with firewalls being used to manage and provide controls
> between them as needed (FastIron does NOT participate in Internal/External
> access).****
>
>  ****
>
> Fireboxes are the Peak 5500e series, with Fireware XTM Pro V11.3.4 - setup
> for Firecluster H/A support for load-sharing and redundancy.  These ports on
> firebox are given MULTICAST MAC addresses, with UNICAST IP's.****
>
> Firewall ports are ALL plugged into various Layer-2 segments.****
>
>  ****
>
> On the primary trusted network, as well as every other Layer-2 segment
> (VLAN) the Firebox is the default gateway - however, there is a Layer-3
> router on the SX-800 for that one segment that provides an alternate
> lower-cost route to distant internal networks via RIP so that internal
> traffic is sent directly across the 2GB trunk line instead of being sent
> through the firewall at slower speed (and higher load on the firewalls
> themselves handling inter-office traffic via VPN's).  ACL's were in place to
> limit and control who had access across that link, but those were removed to
> faciliate debugging for the moment.****
>
>  ****
>
> Head office:  Similar to the above, but using a Super-X instead of the
> SX-800, and a pair of Firebox Core 1250e's - same release of software on
> both sets of devices.****
>
>  ****
>
> The instructions from Watchguard are clear:  We need to setup Static ARP
> and MAC addresses as needed to correctly direct traffic to/from the switches
> and fireboxes.  The samples given are for a Cisco 3750 and an Extreme Summit
> 15040  (ref:
> http://www.watchguard.com/help/docs/wsm/11/en-us/content/en-us/ha/cluster_example_cisco_wsm.html)
> .  This is what I have tried to replicate to the best I can but have had no
> luck with setting the static arp address  on the switch outside of the
> single layer-3 segment we have, and to set it on more than one port.
> Setting the multicast mac is fine for both ports needed to support the pair
> of firewalls by interface )(ex:  static-mac xxx.xxxx.xxxx eth 1/yy eth 2/yy
> -  works fine on every Vlan I need it on).****
>
>  ****
>
> Digging further into Google (which ended up pointing me at this list), I
> found this article about "hairpinning" to correctly support a specific setup
> of Microsoft NLB clusters (which we also use extensively at the datacenter)
> here:  https://puck.nether.net/pipermail/foundry-nsp/2010-June/002498.html
> ****
>
> While I haven't found need to do this for the NLB clusters themselves as
> they appear to be working perfectly (up to 5 physical servers per cluster
> running IIS7 & Win2K8), it appeared to be the best solution to adapt for the
> Firecluster problem...  And getting a static arp assigned to multiple ports.
> ****
>
>  ****
>
> Anyways, long story short - it's not working well.  It seems that the
> traffic is being forced from port to port by only having the ARP/MAC entry
> recognized on a single port at a time (and being kicked around
> constantly).    Apparently, if this was a Cisco - this would work
> brilliantly..  But because we can't map static ARP's as we should,  the
> switch is constantly moving things around instead of sending it out to both
> ports at the same time for each interface.  ****
>
>  ****
>
> Has ANYONE seen or tried this kind of setup using similar hardware ?  If
> so, did you get it working correctly?  Am I on the right track with the
> hairpinning solution?****
>
>  ****
>
> Is Brocade making any changes to Ironware to provide similar functionality
> so that I can get this working properly any time soon, or will I have to
> resort to a couple of dumb Layer-2 switches that apparently won't need any
> configuration and will just work, and cobble the whole thing together into a
> massive mess to get it all tied together?  Are there any issues with
> WatchGuard Firecluster that I need to know about that make it work
> differently than documented, and prevent the FastIron's from being able to
> cope or perform as expected  ( I realize that last question isn't really a
> Foundry question... My apologies, but I hope that someone else with
> Fireboxes has seen this problem on Foundry or perhaps found another solution
> using other hardware if the FastIron's or other Foundry products just
> couldn't do what was needed.  This assumes that FireCluster will work given
> the right infrastructure setup - maybe THAT assumption is wrong?  If so, I'd
> gladly listen to a solution that DOES work?)****
>
>  ****
>
> Best regards,****
>
>  ****
>
> *Robert Toth*****
>
> Director of Information Technology Services****
>
> *iPerceptions Inc*****
>
> Tel: 514.488.3600 ext. [284] | 877.796.3600 ext. [284]****
>
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>
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>
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