[iptv-users] STB/video stream monitoring

Wed Jul 1 09:59:34 EDT 2009

I agree with Kevin on this, with one caveat: the MDI scoring can help  
when the network equipment vendor doesn't believe that his gear is at  
fault.  This is really where having probes positioned at different  
points in the network (like, before and after a suspect section of the  
network) can be a battle winner...

I want to see Ineo create a frame grabber that will decode the MPEG  
internally and compare it with the a/v output of the STB.  That would  
be the best of both worlds, and would give the ultimate final say...  
However, their MPEG decoder would have to be bulletproof and  
acceptable to the STB manufacturers as such, which is probably why  
they have not yet done it yet.

 From what I understand, their newest incarnation of the software  
allows the two sides (transport monitoring and A/V quality monitoring)  
to co-trigger each other, so if any probe sees a problem, it will  
create an event and coordinate the data from all the devices in that  
path, so that later analysis can see the event as a whole.

Alex

On Jul 1, 2009, at 7:21 AM, Kevin Shymkiw wrote:

> Speaking from a Network Engineering background, the Layers I wanted  
> to focus more on were Layers 4-7, since I knew I could control  
> Layers1-3.  This is why MDI Scoring on these probes had very little  
> need/want for me.  In all honesty, the network can only impair a  
> Video Signal, it can't add an I-Frame per say.  Now the content  
> distribution source, could have a bad encoder, which I could never  
> see in MDI Scoring, or by looking at Transport.
>
> If you have the ability, I would look at a mixed deployment of both  
> Ineoquest and Mixed Signals.  Each one has alot to offer, and  
> Ineoquest has the stuff like 10G, that Mixed Signals won't support.   
> I do think Ineoquest has a good platform, they just have too many  
> products, IMO.  I would love to see them combine Frame Grabber, into  
> their G1 Probes.  In our deployment we do all of our "Heavy Lifting"  
> with Mixed Signals.  To verify MPEG Integrity comming into our  
> plant, and at several key points throughout.
>
> Kevin
>
> Frank Bulk wrote:
>>
>> It's certain not clear to me layer(s) deserve the most attention:  
>> L1 & 2,
>> L4, or L7.  As Kevin points out, some products are better for some  
>> layers
>> than others, and depending on the user of the tool, certain ones  
>> are more
>> attractive than others.  My guess is that head end gurus might like  
>> an L7
>> product, but the largest support group tends to be outside plant  
>> techs that
>> would likely prefer an L1 & 2 product.  I guess I would see a  
>> product like
>> Mixed Signals located more in the head end.  The edge transport  
>> doesn't
>> affect the MPEG content, so I really only would need an L4 product  
>> at the
>> edge to tell me about response times to IGMP joins/leaves, jitter,  
>> loss,
>> etc.
>>
>> We can't afford a tool to cover each layer.  Since we can use the  
>> tool for
>> L1 & 2 to resolve our copper dial-tone and DSL issues, then it's a L4
>> "versus" L7 question.
>>
>> Frank
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Kevin Shymkiw [mailto:kshymkiw at gmail.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 1:15 PM
>> To: Alex Moen
>> Cc: frnkblk at iname.com; iptv-users at puck.nether.net
>> Subject: Re: [iptv-users] STB/video stream monitoring
>>
>> I have tried Frame Grabber.  Frame Grabber, needs to actually plug  
>> into
>> a STB, which obviously if your an all IP shop, you would much rather
>> just do an IGMP Join into a group, rather then deploy a Decoder,  
>> and a
>> STB.  Mixed Signals also has much better alarming features, and with
>> their new release later this year, will be looking for Jitter in the
>> MPEG, etc....  If you would like a contact there, you are more than
>> welcome to contact me off list, and I can send you our Mixed  
>> Signals Rep.
>>
>> As far as the Alarming/Alerting, Mixed Signals on the probe itself  
>> can
>> be set up to look at 5.1 Audio, and alarm for any channel of the 5.1
>> Audio going quiet.  Also alarms on MPEG Freezes, and many MPEG  
>> related
>> alarms, other than ETR-290 stuff.  Ineoquest is big on MDI Scoring,
>> which basically should tell you they are stuck into the Transport  
>> Layer
>> of IPTV.  Mixed Signals and Symmetricom both, don't use any MDI  
>> Scoring,
>> since the MDI values are all looking at Transport Layer.
>>
>> Kevin
>>
>> Alex Moen wrote:
>>
>>> Good info.. I am going to look into that too.  Have you tried the  
>>> iCMS
>>> and FrameGrabbers yet from Ineo?  How do they compare?
>>>
>>> Alex
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 30, 2009, at 12:14 PM, Kevin Shymkiw wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I have used Ineoquest, and would have to recomend Mixed Signals  
>>>> over
>>>> Ineoquest (http://mixedsignals.com/index.php).  Ineoquest is still
>>>> looking more into the Transport Layer, rather than the MPEG itself.
>>>> Mixed Signals and Symmetricom are heavily into the MPEG encoding,
>>>> etc...  We have a large scale deployment of Ineoquest and Mixed
>>>> Signals, when I say large scale I mean >$2million, and by far the
>>>> Mixed Signals product out performs Ineoquest.
>>>>
>>>> Kevin
>>>>
>>>> Alex Moen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Take a look at Ineoquest's iVMS (for transport quality monitoring)
>>>>> and iCMS (for video/audio content quality and end-user experience
>>>>> monitoring).  We use both of these products, and they can be  
>>>>> both a
>>>>> lifesaver and a "finger-pointing" resolver.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.ineoquest.com
>>>>>
>>>>> Alex
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jun 30, 2009, at 11:02 AM, Frank Bulk wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Is anyone doing any video stream error monitoring/checking from  
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> point-of-view of the STB?  I know that there is at least one  
>>>>>> vendor
>>>>>> out
>>>>>> there, Psytechnics, that has a module it can integrate into the
>>>>>> middleware
>>>>>> of the STB, but I haven't see IPTV middleware vendors picking  
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> up.  I
>>>>>> know that the Amino 110 writes out some rudimentary stats to the
>>>>>> drive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We track most of our video problems based on the 15-minute PM  
>>>>>> bins
>>>>>> that our
>>>>>> transport gear's ADSL ports record, but nothing L4 and up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ideally every STB would have something Psytechnic-like built in.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Frank
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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