[j-nsp] M5/M10/M20 gear questions

[Charles Sprickman]

On Tue, 16 Dec 2008, Steve Steiner wrote:

> On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 12:13 AM, Charles Sprickman <spork at bway.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I am trying to gather some more info on the downside of the older/used
>> gear.  On paper, it looks like anything from an M5 up would be more than
>> capable of meeting our needs for the next few years.
>
>
> EOL gear may not be supported by TAC.  Just something to keep in mind.

This is really one of the huge sticking points that I'm having a hard time 
resolving.  I noticed that for example the M20 is supported through 2012, 
but I noticed that everyone shys away from the question of getting a 
software contract.  I'm dying to know if Juniper just doesn't sell 
software-only support or doesn't sell for used gear, etc.

Can someone give me the basics on that?  I saw one post that mentioned 
having the hardware "recertified", but I'm not interested in hardware 
support.  I just want to legally license/run current software.  I assume 
that Juniper is not so dense as to push honest people to piracy, right? 
Someone's going to buy a recently used M10i from NHR for over $10K and 
then have to resort to nefarious methods to "acquire" new code?  Help me 
understand this...

[...]

>> On the GigE PICs, what is the main difference between the older and newer
>> versions?  I will likely cheap out and go with just 2 or 3 of them and for
>> the less bandwidth-intensive stuff stick one of them in a GigE switch and do
>> the "router on a stick" config with VLANs.  Any thoughts on this?
>
> Stay away from the very old GE-SX PICs as there were some with bad
> firmware.  As for the "different" GE PICs, I assume you mean the differences
> between the GE-SFP and the GE IQ/IQ2 PICs.

Correct.

> The IQ/IQ2 PICs move queing (and other features) to the PIC from the 
> FPC.  If you plan to run vanilla dot1q with very little, if any, CoS the 
> older GE PICs should be fine.  You really see the differences in running 
> things like VPLS, CCC encaps, tag rewrites and stacks, etc.  You should 
> check out the PIC guide for those chassis to give you a better 
> understanding of what's supported on each PIC type.

I'm finding the Juniper site a bit easier to navigate than Cisco's, but 
I'm also finding that some interesting looking docs have a padlock next to 
them.  So I'm asking for a little handout here.  I've seen the prices on 
used IQ and IQ2 PICs and it's more than I can justify at this point. 
Down the road when I do need to tinker with fancy stuff I can look at 
that.  But what about the most basic QoS and shaping?  On the GE-SX PICS 
can I do a hard rate-limit per vlan or similar?  We do some metro ethernet 
where each customer comes in on a distinct vlan.  Our choices from the 
carrier are either 10 or 100Mb/s tails.  It would be nice to be able to 
sell, say 30Mb/s on a 100Mb/s tail or 5Mb/s on a 10Mb/s tail.  Doable with 
the GE-SX PICs?

[...]

> I have worked for small ISP's before, so I can appreciate your cost
> concerns, but to be honest I don't think I'd run a revenue producing network
> with EOL gear.  If you do, be sure to plan ahead and keep some spares on
> hand.  Hardware failures always happen at the worst times. ;-)

Too late for that.  We've been doing it for years.  One of the sellers I'm 
looking at would be able to get me everything but the ATM card I need and 
be within budget.  And have two complete routers...  Cheaper than a 
hardware contract...

Thanks,

Charles

>>
>> ___
>> Charles Sprickman
>> NetEng/SysAdmin
>> Bway.net - New York's Best Internet - www.bway.net
>> spork at bway.net - 212.655.9344
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> juniper-nsp mailing list juniper-nsp at puck.nether.net
>> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/juniper-nsp
>>
>