[Outages-discussion] Fiber cut between Marion and Muncie IN

Tue Oct 11 23:17:26 EDT 2011

Naw, all you need is a protect path... Fiber cuts are rare enough that "regular" circuit protection on a ring will get you to very close to 100% availability. Running unprotected is a risk regardless of how physically well protected the outside plant is.

-Bill 
[Sent using Blackberry Messaging]

________________________________

From: John Fraizer 
To: Bill Wichers; outages at jdc.parodius.com ; jeremy at evilrouters.net 
Cc: maddison at lightbound.net ; outages-discussion at outages.org 
Sent: Tue Oct 11 21:41:10 2011
Subject: Re: [Outages-discussion] Fiber cut between Marion and Muncie IN 

20ft of EMT or even rigid is MUCH CHEAPER than a single splice incident not even counting SLA credits. 

Sigh...

How many circuits can run on a 144 strand path?   How many wavelengths are you using.  How many NOC staff do you have?  How many inbound chans on your trunk carrying calls to your support line?

WAY cheaper to build it "strong" to begin with.

Sigh....

Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

-----Original message-----

	From: Bill Wichers <billw at waveform.net>
	To: John Fraizer <jfraizer at netriplex.com>, "outages at jdc.parodius.com" <outages at jdc.parodius.com>, "jeremy at evilrouters.net" <jeremy at evilrouters.net>
	Cc: "maddison at lightbound.net" <maddison at lightbound.net>, "outages-discussion at outages.org" <outages-discussion at outages.org>
	Sent: Wed, Oct 12, 2011 01:29:36 GMT+00:00
	Subject: Re: [Outages-discussion] Fiber cut between Marion and Muncie IN

	That's very unusual, unfortunatly. Most riser poles have a stub of pvc or hdpe conduit maybe 6" out of the ground and then use a pvc riser guard up about 6-8 feet. The fiber is usually just stapled/strapped to the pole above the riser guard. I like to put an additional sleeve over the transition from ground to pole to protect against weed whackers (many of the commercial ones use a metal saw blade).

	I have a few sites with rigid (much stronger than emt) conduit up about 10 feet on poles, but that was only done in areas where vandalizm was a concern.

	Outside plant has many natural and man-made enemies ;-)

	-Bill 
	[Sent using Blackberry Messaging]

________________________________

	From: John Fraizer 
	To: Bill Wichers; outages at jdc.parodius.com ; jeremy at evilrouters.net 
	Cc: maddison at lightbound.net ; outages-discussion at outages.org 
	Sent: Tue Oct 11 21:20:15 2011
	Subject: Re: [Outages-discussion] Fiber cut between Marion and Muncie IN 

	Who didn't learn their lesson from the TYRO days?  You use EMT up to a "reasonable level" to avoid this when going from burried to sky-strung.

	Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

	-----Original message-----

		From: Bill Wichers <billw at waveform.net>
		To: "outages at jdc.parodius.com" <outages at jdc.parodius.com>, "jeremy at evilrouters.net" <jeremy at evilrouters.net>
		Cc: "maddison at lightbound.net" <maddison at lightbound.net>, "outages-discussion at outages.org" <outages-discussion at outages.org>
		Sent: Wed, Oct 12, 2011 01:10:47 GMT+00:00
		Subject: Re: [Outages-discussion] Fiber cut between Marion and Muncie IN

		There is also the possibility here that the fiber was whacked at or near the base of a riser pole where there would only be a relatively small amount of protection (as in about 1/8" of plastic for a riser guard).

		Remember that a large percentage of installed fiber -- especially fiber owned by discount carriers -- is aerial and *not* underground, or at least not underground along entire routes.

		Also, I've seen critters dig deep before. There was a fiber cut several years ago on verizon north's (now frontier's) network in northern michigan like this. A beaver had burrowed down and chewed through a fiber cable. The cable was at least 2 feet deep.

		Fiber is usually installed in the 3-4 foot deep range here. It's rarely much deeper than that except in special circumstances (I spec'ed in a run under a local street at 15 foot depth to avoid it getting taken out a second time by storm drain reconstruction). If you go much deeper you run into water lines and below those sanitary sewers. The drill crews try to pick depths that are mostly clear of other utilities when they can. In a rural area the cable may have gone into an open trench in which case I wouldn't be surprised if there are areas of only 18-24 inch depth.
		 -Bill
		[Sent using Blackberry Messaging]

		----- Original Message -----
		From: Jeremy Chadwick <outages at jdc.parodius.com>
		To: Jeremy L. Gaddis <jeremy at evilrouters.net>
		Cc: Matt Addison <maddison at lightbound.net>; outages-discussion at outages.org <outages-discussion at outages.org>
		Sent: Tue Oct 11 20:21:50 2011
		Subject: Re: [Outages-discussion] Fiber cut between Marion and Muncie IN

		A brush hog?  I think they meant a bush hog.  A bush hog is a small
		tractor/mechanical device which is used to mow forms of dry grass.
		Google "bush hog" and see for yourself.

		Why should you care?

		Bush hogs do not drill into dirt, and normally they do not touch soil.
		The blades and cutting mechanisms work above the surface of the ground.
		If manually adjusted incorrectly, they can dig into soil, but the
		deepest they would go -- at most -- would be about 12 inches.  Could
		they break through a metal or plastic conduit?  Yes.  But bush hogs are
		not rototillers!

		Customers who use this carrier should be asking for an explanation,
		because bush hogs won't dig as deep as fibre and conduits are supposed
		to be buried.  So this means someone either laid fibre bare across the
		ground, or someone did a fibre drop and simply sprinkled a few inches of
		dirt on it.  This is unacceptable.

		I may be a SA but I'm an old Oregon farm boy....  :-)  And my colleague
		from Iowa (another farmhand) also confirms my statements about bush
		hogs.  BUSH HOGS!!  GET 'ER DONE!!!

		--
		| Jeremy Chadwick                                jdc at parodius.com |
		| Parodius Networking                       http://www.parodius.com/ <http://www.parodius.com/>  |
		| UNIX Systems Administrator                   Mountain View, CA, US |
		| Making life hard for others since 1977.               PGP 4BD6C0CB |

		On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 06:50:43PM -0400, Jeremy L. Gaddis wrote:
		> Here's what I received, timestamped 2234 UTC:
		>
		> "Fiber Provider Zayo Engineers found the 144 count fiber cut in half by a
		> brush hog. Splicers are onsite pulling slack at this time with a
		> tentative ETR for lit services of about 4.5 hrs with all others being
		> 6 to 8 hours."
		>
		> --
		> Jeremy L. Gaddis
		> http://evilrouters.net/
		>
		>
		>
		>
		> On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 5:39 PM, Matt Addison <maddison at lightbound.net> wrote:
		> > In case anyone else is seeing oddities or down circuits that pass through central Indiana, we're aware of a confirmed cut between Marion and Muncie that's affecting some of Zayo's lit services and possibly others.
		> >
		> > OT 

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