<html><head></head><body><div dir="auto">Honestly I think it might be time this list evolve outside a listserv. I've seen a lot of groups moving to stuff like discourse (no, not discord: <a href="https://www.discourse.org">https://www.discourse.org</a>) , which allows for everyone to subscribe to exactly what they want etc.<br><br></div>
<div dir="auto">It's probably not a perfect drop in replacement, but might be a good idea for lists moving forward? </div>
<div class="gmail_quote" >On May 21, 2018, at 19:05, Scott Whyte <<a href="mailto:swhyte@gmail.com" target="_blank">swhyte@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<pre class="blue"><br><br>On 5/21/18 2:43 PM, Jay R. Ashworth wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #729fcf; padding-left: 1ex;"> ----- Original Message -----<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #ad7fa8; padding-left: 1ex;"> From: "Scott Whyte" <swhyte@gmail.com><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #8ae234; padding-left: 1ex;"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #fcaf3e; padding-left: 1ex;"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #e9b96e; padding-left: 1ex;"> Slack is only barely on-topic for the list anyway.<br></blockquote> Explain that a bit more please? From the about page<br> "outages-reporting that would apply to failures of major communications<br> infrastructure components having significant traffic-carrying capacity,"<br></blockquote> Slack being an end-user service, it's on-topicness falls under "eyeball services<br> that our audience is likely to get lots of reports about" -- with a couple<br> extra points because lots of the people on the list probably use it themselves.<br></blockquote> Ok so you are differentiating between transit and end traffic, despite<br> the fact that several "eyeball" networks source/sink way more packets<br> than any ISP nowadays. I can see the value of this differentiation (if<br> I squint), maybe we need a eyeball-outages to better separate the two?<br> Or is there one I'm not aware of? I'm tired of hearing about single<br> circuit outages, but I'm super tired of all the whinging.<br></blockquote> Not eyeball network -- eyeball *services*.<br><br> A transport outage inside Spectrum is clearly on-topic.<br><br> A transport outage at 111 8th St is also on-topic, even though it's in a<br> single building.<br><br> An infrastructure outage at Amazon East is on topic.<br><br> An outage of a single service hosted by Amazon (or whomever) depends a lot<br> on what that service is -- how many trouble calls is it likely to generate,<br> and how important to the maintanence of the network that service is.<br><br> Flickr, for example, wins on the first point; Slack on the second.<br><br> That's the way I've been looking at -- and handling -- it, to date.<br><br> Does that seem reasonable?<br></blockquote>Man after an hour of kicking this around I feel your pain. We'd like to <br>discern between underlay, overlay, and service, but wtf do those terms <br>even mean in the modern network where any layer can and is transported <br>over another layer?<br><br>For me, pulling what are "clearly" services :) off into another list <br>might be the most helpful and least disruptive. In this case I'd <br>suggest anything that is a service would be fair game on the new list, <br>to lighten the moderation load, similar to how on this list anything <br>"clearly" underlay is fair game as well.<br><br>Thoughts?<br><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #729fcf; padding-left: 1ex;"><br> Cheers,<br> -- jra<br></blockquote><br><hr><br>Outages-discussion mailing list<br>Outages-discussion@outages.org<br><a href="https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/outages-discussion">https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/outages-discussion</a><br></pre></blockquote></div></body></html>