<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Is this really what Cogent is doing? It’s not doing anything to the physical hardware, it’s just choosing not to peer or work directly with Russian companies.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Does Cogent own any of the physical infrastructure here? Is Cogents move causing issues beyond not creating direct connections between it’s customers and Russian based end-points? Is this move only really affecting Cogent customers in Russia?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">There is an unfortunate problem taking wording from a telecommunication world of over 100 years ago and relating it to the current way the internet works, but it would seem that those conventions would really properly only apply to Tier 1 networks. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Mar 4, 2022, at 4:27 PM, Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" class="">owen@delong.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">I would agree with you if not for this passage:<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><span class="" style="font-size: 12.8px;">A neutral Power must see to the same obligation being observed by</span><br class="" style="font-size: 12.8px;"><span class="" style="font-size: 12.8px;">companies or private individuals owning telegraph or telephone cables or</span><br class="" style="font-size: 12.8px;"><span class="" style="font-size: 12.8px;">wireless telegraphy apparatus.</span><br class=""></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">That, to me, says that the US, if it were a neutral power (and I am unconvinced</div><div class="">that it is), it would have those obligations and would further be required to</div><div class="">enforce those same obligations upon Cogent.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Owen</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Mar 4, 2022, at 12:26 , Sean Brown <<a href="mailto:sean.brown@saminds.com" class="">sean.brown@saminds.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">I disagree. <font class="">It seems pretty obvious the ’neutral power’ reference are the signatory nations to the Convention not engaged in conflict and not every private entity therein. As such the US (in this case) couldn’t direct Cogent to disconnect from Russia and not Ukraine, but Cogent is free, as a private entity, to choose not to do business with companies in Russia.</font><div class=""><font class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=""><br class=""></span></font></div><div class=""><font class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="">The US is not directing Cogent to this action so the US is not in violation of the Convention, and Cogent is not a signatory to the Convention.<br class=""></span></font><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Mar 4, 2022, at 2:59 PM, Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" class="">owen@delong.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">It’s clear from the second paragraph of I.9 that this convention is written<div class="">to apply to “powers” (i.e. governments) and that each government is expected</div><div class="">to enforce compliance by companies operating under its “flag” for lack of a</div><div class="">better term.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">As such, it seems, at least in theory that Cogent would be expected to be</div><div class="">of the same posture (neutrality or not) as the U.S. overall. I think it would</div><div class="">be hard to claim that the U.S. is either entirely neutral or entirely in support</div><div class="">of Ukraine under current conditions, so I guess that leaves Cogent free to</div><div class="">choose anywhere on that spectrum they wish as well.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Personally, I’m of mixed opinion. I support doing whatever we can to hurt</div><div class="">Putin and the leadership of Russia that has created this situation, but I am</div><div class="">not convinced that cutting off access to outside information for millions of</div><div class="">Russian citizens is not counterproductive to that end.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Owen</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Mar 4, 2022, at 11:36 , Matthew Petach <<a href="mailto:matt@petach.org" class="">matt@petach.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">If they're going to follow the War Conventions in the Hauge, they should likewise terminate all customer connections to Ukraine as well, if they're considering themselves to be a neutral party. </div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">Of course, that doesn't apply if they're taking a side as a participant in the conflict.</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">Shamelessly copying from Sean Donelan...</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br style="" class=""><a href="https://www.icrc.org/en" style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(66,133,244);font-size:12.8px" class="">https://www.icrc.org/en</a><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><span style="font-size:12.8px" class="">Convention (V) respecting the Rights and Duties of Neutral Powers and</span><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><span style="font-size:12.8px" class="">Persons in Case of War on Land. The Hague, 18 October 1907.</span><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><span style="font-size:12.8px" class="">CHAPTER I : THE RIGHTS AND DUTIES OF NEUTRAL POWERS - ART. 8.</span><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><span style="font-size:12.8px" class="">Art. 8. A neutral Power is not called upon to forbid or restrict the use</span><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><span style="font-size:12.8px" class="">on behalf of the belligerents of telegraph or telephone cables or of</span><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><span style="font-size:12.8px" class="">wireless telegraphy apparatus belonging to it or to companies or private</span><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><span style="font-size:12.8px" class="">individuals.</span><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><span style="font-size:12.8px" class="">CHAPTER I : THE RIGHTS AND DUTIES OF NEUTRAL POWERS - ART. 9.</span><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><span style="font-size:12.8px" class="">Art. 9. Every measure of restriction or prohibition taken by a neutral</span><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><span style="font-size:12.8px" class="">Power in regard to the matters referred to in Articles 7 and 8</span><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><span style="font-size:12.8px" class="">must be impartially applied by it to both belligerents.</span><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><span style="font-size:12.8px" class="">A neutral Power must see to the same obligation being observed by</span><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><span style="font-size:12.8px" class="">companies or private individuals owning telegraph or telephone cables or</span><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><span style="font-size:12.8px" class="">wireless telegraphy apparatus.</span><br class=""><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Mar 4, 2022, 11:20 Andy Ringsmuth <<a href="mailto:andy@andyring.com" class="">andy@andyring.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Apparently effective at noon EDT, which would be a couple hours ago.<br class="">
<br class="">
Washington Post, but here’s a paywall-free archive:<br class="">
<br class="">
<a href="https://archive.ph/TFgyg" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://archive.ph/TFgyg</a><br class=""><br class="">
</blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br class=""></blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br class=""></blockquote></div></div></div>
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