<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto">NY5 was still under construction during Sandy however the adjacent NY2 and NY4 suffered no ill effects to my recollection. Parts of Secaucus are in a flood plain and I recall local roads flooding and shutting off access during other weather events, but that had no impact to the site itself. That said, NY5 was built as an extension to NY4 primarily to cater to demand from financial institutions, and is priced as such. I’d suspect that using it solely as a tertiary network aggregation site isn’t going to make financial sense. <div><br></div><div>To your original question… there really isn’t a good answer. Your characterization of 111, 60 Hud and 165 Halsey as aged, non-purpose-built facilities is fair (and I would similarly characterize legacy sites like 32 AofA, 85 10th, 25 Bwy and 75 Broad as at an even lower standard) but what carrier hotel is? At least in North America, I can think of no more than two that I’d consider to meet a standard closer to a more modern datacenter. </div><div><br></div><div>But that’s deliberate. Network aggregation inherently is less density demanding and potentially less uptime demanding than compute, and operators treat them that way. Nearly all of the new, gigascale, high-density sites going on greenfield parcels are being leased to one or two tenants at most - so even if six or eight carriers are going in there to serve those tenants, the operator has no incentive to carve out space in those sites for smaller footprints, and god forbid someone that just wants a rack. Which leaves folks that do just want a rack to pick from the aged, less resilient sites the big buyers don’t want to mess around with. </div><div><br></div><div>There are a couple of newer operators out there trying to solve this problem and “overbuild” carrier hotels (although I’m not specifically aware of anyone focused on metro NYC), but I think it’s challenging. The appeal of being in a 111 8th is solely that everyone else is there already, which makes it seem difficult to me to replicate inorganically, but I think it’s sorely needed from a technical perspective and hope that those organizations are successful. In the meantime, I wish you luck but suspect you’ll find that your alternatives are even worse than your current situation. <br><div><br id="lineBreakAtBeginningOfSignature"><div dir="ltr">Dave Cohen<div>craetdave@gmail.com</div></div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Dec 8, 2024, at 5:51 PM, Charles Sprickman via Outages-discussion <outages-discussion@outages.org> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">How did this place fare during Sandy? Are you certain Pilot is in there?<br id="lineBreakAtBeginningOfMessage"><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Dec 8, 2024, at 3:31 PM, Joseph Jackson <jjackson@aninetworks.net> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div><meta charset="UTF-8"><div class="elementToProof" style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">We moved from 60 Hudson to Equinix NY5 across the river in Secaucus, one of the nicer DCs I've ever seen and all your cross connects will be easily provided. So if you don't NEED to be on Manhattan then I think NY5 is a pretty great pick.</div><div class="elementToProof" style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br></div><div class="elementToProof" style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br></div><div class="elementToProof" style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br></div><div class="elementToProof" style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br></div><div class="elementToProof" style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">Joseph</div><div class="elementToProof" style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br></div><div id="appendonsend" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: inherit; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"></div><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br></div><hr style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; display: inline-block; width: 986.859375px;"><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;"></span><div dir="ltr" id="divRplyFwdMsg" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: inherit; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><b>From:</b> Outages-discussion <<a href="mailto:outages-discussion-bounces@outages.org">outages-discussion-bounces@outages.org</a>> on behalf of Charles Sprickman via Outages-discussion <<a href="mailto:outages-discussion@outages.org">outages-discussion@outages.org</a>><br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, December 8, 2024 2:26 PM<br><b>To:</b> Matthew Petach <<a href="mailto:matt@petach.org">matt@petach.org</a>><br><b>Cc:</b> Outages Discussion <<a href="mailto:outages-discussion@outages.org">outages-discussion@outages.org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Outages-discussion] Way OT: NYC-area "Carrier Hotels" in it for the long term?</span><div> </div></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-size: 11pt;"><br><br>> On Dec 6, 2024, at 5:13 PM, Matthew Petach <<a href="mailto:matt@petach.org">matt@petach.org</a>> wrote:<br>><br>> Hi Charles,<br>><br>> I'm curious what your criteria are; I noticed you left 25 Broadway and 32 Avenue of the Americas<br>> off your list of NYC carrier hotels, but included 165 Halsey even though it's not in NYC.<br><br>If I'm to believe wikipedia, the three I included are the "big 3" for the NYC area. And considering 165 does international cable landing stuff as well, I think that certainly elevates it.<br><br>I wasn't aware Telehouse was still in 25 Broadway, but unless it's changed quite a bit, that was very much a secondary site for Telehouse, and was an absolute mess (they let you run your own x-conns - which has more downsides than upsides I think). Two folks I worked with pulled out of there after 9/11, but their issues with power and failing transfer switches for the gensets pre-dated that.<br><br>I don't think most of the people we have NNIs from are in 32 Avenue of the Americas.<br><br>> Are you looking for recommendations on carrier hotels in NYC, including ones not on your list,<br>> or are you specifically just wanting to know information about those two locations only because<br>> of $reasons?<br><br>Just want a place I can park these people and never think about moving again. The thinking with using "carrier hotels" is that the more people you have dependent on a place existing, the better chance there is of it not going away.<br><br>><br>> Understanding better what it is you're looking for will drive better responses to your inquiry. ^_^;<br><br>1 rack, hardly any power (a few servers, a router, a few switches), and cheap x-conns to GTT, Crown Castle, Lumen/L3, HE, Spectrum, Pilot, and TWT (whoever they may be now, I don't even know).<br><br>Does that clarify? Basically what we had until Google bought 111 8th - I think we were there for, shit... 30 years now. That sort of longevity.<br><br>Charles<br><br>><br>> Thanks! <br>><br>> Matt<br>><br>><br>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 1:16 PM Charles Sprickman via Outages-discussion <<a href="mailto:outages-discussion@outages.org">outages-discussion@outages.org</a>> wrote:<br>> I have no idea where to go for questions like this these days, so maybe a little reliability angle here can help me wedge this question into being a on-topic...<br>><br>> As I understand it, the three "big" carrier hotels here are:<br>><br>> - 111 8th Avenue<br>> - 60 Hudson<br>> - 165 Halsey (Newark)<br>><br>> The colo space seems to be a mess right now, but perhaps we're going to see that recover as more people do the math on "cloud repatriation". But in that list, I think 111 8th is not long for this world as google fails to renew some leases (ex: Level3/Lumen is out next year).<br>><br>> Now both 60 Hudson and 165 Halsey are old, not purpose-built, not particularly hardened for security/weather, and as best I can tell, have a bit of an ad-hoc, tenant-driven setup for backup power and fuel for same. Currently, sitting in 111 8th since the mid-90's, I know they've simply not lost backup power - not around 9/11, the big east coast blackout, or Sandy. This doesn't feel like a high bar, but I feel like in general people are not as demanding as they were pre-cloud with this sort of stuff.<br>><br>> Anyone here willing to speak to the reliability of 165 Halsey or 60 Hudson? I feel like not too long ago someone had posted about some issues at 165 Halsey - power issues I think? Or fire? I'm not even sure what the situation is with the river that runs through Newark...<br>><br>> I've heard some rumblings that 60 Hudson may not be long for this world, but I think that's people mistaking some tenants (like Lumen/Level3) just exiting a business that's not their focus anymore (colo in carrier hotels).<br>><br>> Also happily will take any info/rumors/anecdotes on either!<br>><br>> Thanks,<br>><br>> Charles<br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Outages-discussion mailing list<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:Outages-discussion@outages.org">Outages-discussion@outages.org</a><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/outages-discussion" id="OWA77805352-0a8e-66c9-6c5b-b76a25cdf35f" class="OWAAutoLink" data-auth="NotApplicable">https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/outages-discussion</a><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Outages-discussion mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Outages-discussion@outages.org">Outages-discussion@outages.org</a><br><a href="https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/outages-discussion" id="OWAa402b236-2dca-e8a7-80b8-89c1f49ea07b" class="OWAAutoLink" data-auth="NotApplicable">https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/outages-discussion</a></div></div></blockquote></div><br><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>Outages-discussion mailing list</span><br><span>Outages-discussion@outages.org</span><br><span>https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/outages-discussion</span><br></div></blockquote></div></div></body></html>