[outages] Communication Infrastructure [was: Ok, ok; Jeezus, people... it was a joke.]

[Stephen Wilcox]

On 8 February 2013 04:28, Patrick W. Gilmore <patrick at ianai.net> wrote:

> On Feb 07, 2013, at 23:07 , Stephen Wilcox <steve.wilcox at ixreach.com>
> wrote:
>
> >> This list is for notification.  And I would like to be notified if
> 8.8.8.8 or Netflix is down.
> >
> > And I would like to be notified if my local Papa Johns has any specials
> on combo pizza and chicken strips...
>
> Fair rejoinder.
>
> Allow me to rephrase: I think it is important to a significant fraction of
> the 'Net when something that is used by a significant fraction of the 'Net
> goes down.  The examples above are usually more relevant to more people
> than a single fiber cut.
>
>
> >> The list owners (or a vote of the members? I don't know how this works)
> can decide otherwise.  But your arguments are unpersuasive.
> >
> > I'm just quoting what the mailman page says the list is for.... if that
> description is wrong, then I'm on the wrong list.
>
> And I gave you reasons why the above fits that description, which you
> conveniently snipped.
>

Well, each individual will have their own things they consider important
(hence my pizza jibe) and will want to argue are relevant to thousands of
people. But thats not a good way to maintain a low volume on-topic mailing
list. Your argument is also expanding the scope, I am trying to argue for
the status quo of what was originally said.


However, you may be right.  Or you may well be on the wrong list.  Or maybe
> the definition needs massaging.
>
> Shall we define things like "infrastructure" better?  I would call the
> Domain Name System "communications infrastructure".  As a trivial (and
> hyperbolic) example, would you argue all 13 root servers going down should
> not be on topic?
>

Correct. And that avoids mandate creep and unnecessary discussion to define
it - eg are the GTLDs important, what about google.com, what about the .biz
or .cd ?



> Shall we modify the part about "traffic-carrying capacity"?  Fewer Mbps
> are transmitted on one of the many fiber paths between Sprint & UUNET
> (which are typically redundant) than Netflix pushes.  However, Netflix
> doesn't "carry" any traffic.  Are you going to argue Netflix is not
> relevant to the readers of this list?  Many (most?) see a larger traffic
> shift from a Netflix outage than a cut between Sprint & UU.
>

I'd argue its important for many but off-topic. And this kind of website
discussion exists simultaneously in many *NOG mailing lists, usually
looping around the first 50 people saying who sees the service up and who
sees it down, followed by 50 posts speculating on the cause of the issue,
followed by 50 posts discussions the merits of GSLB vs anycast etc.



> Then there is the fun around the word "major".  It could go on for weeks!
>

I don't have the desire to argue for weeks, replying this morning is
pushing it..


But let's short-circuit this entertainment and ask a more basic question:
> Who defines these things, and by what process?  If this list is only for
> fiber cuts & router crashes, then let's say so and be done with it.
>

Someone defined it, wrote it down and I'll run with it. In my understanding
that means physical infrastructure failures of a significant nature, links
carrying high capacity, multiple public network operators ... I'd have no
issue making the wording more specific, but I think less specific is
opening pandora's box.

Steve





>
> --
> TTFN,
> patrick
>
>
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