[outages] Cogent /ATT and Verizon Peering alternatives

Tue Feb 11 16:46:54 EST 2014

We have been collateral damage in this fight for a long time too, we
adjusted our routing for a VZN traffic to transit our US Signal link to
resolve this issue.

---
Ben Mason
email: su1droot at gmail.com
web: http://www.benmasonphoto.com
gchat: su1droot at gmail.com

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 3:44 PM, Stephen Wilcox <steve.wilcox at ixreach.com>wrote:

>
>
>
> On 11 February 2014 20:10, Charles Sprickman <spork at bway.net> wrote:
>
>> On Feb 10, 2014, at 9:12 PM, Stephen Wilcox wrote:
>>
>> On 11 February 2014 01:56, Charles Sprickman <spork at bway.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 10, 2014, at 8:02 PM, Rusty Hodge wrote:
>>>
>>> > We are seeing lots of problems with our audio streaming traffic
>>> dropping lots of packets where our transit provider Cogent hands off to ATT
>>> & Verizon.
>>> >
>>> > Right now, I'm seeing  43% packet loss
>>> >
>>> > Cogent is blaming ATT/Verizon and says there is nothing they can do
>>> about it. We're the collateral damage.
>>>
>>> Isn't this the result of VZ/Comcast/ATT and others refusing peering with
>>> Netflix and Netflix purchasing transit via Cogent to reach them?
>>>
>>
>> Its more complicated than that - Netflix pays CDNs, transits etc for
>> delivery of much of its content.
>>
>>
>> And VZ wants some payment from Netflix as well - most likely by selling
>> Netflix transit I suppose.
>>
>>  The original email as I understood was a user seeing packet loss
>> between their business Internet service with Verizon and either a server
>> hosted within Cogent or another Internet access service. ie an end user
>> trying to connect with another end user/host. As such I don't think its
>> about Netflix, but this end user who is paying two providers neither of
>> which are delivering.
>>
>>
>> Netflix's overall traffic volume is huge.  If Cogent is in fact the path
>> of last resort to Verizon for Netflix, and VZ and Cogent are having a spat,
>> this would obviously impact everyone looking to move traffic between VZ and
>> Cogent, not just Netflix customers.
>>
>> I would complain to both. I'd also try moving - preferably at both sides.
>>
>>
>> On the residential side, you have a duopoly if you're lucky, moving isn't
>> an option for everyone.  And if Comcast is also having issues, then you've
>> exhausted both of your options (cable and FiOS).
>>
>> Total speculation, but seeing the complaints from FiOS users about
>> Netflix, Youtube and Amazon makes me think VZ is really itching to test the
>> new court ruling.  All three of those "problem networks" have great peering
>> terms, yet VZ, from what I can see does not peer with any of them.  On our
>> network, I see more than 50% of our traffic lands on Google or Amazon - as
>> an ISP, it's pretty bold to decide to reach those networks via anything but
>> a peering relationship.
>>
>
> Fully agree with the concerns against VZ (altho don't blame on maligned
> intent what can be explained through incompetence either).
>
> On the other hand, Netflix have a choice of upstreams and CDNs and Cogent
> doesn't have to accept business that it can't fulfill. It could also
> mitigate against the service problems that other customers see in the same
> way anyone deals with a DDoS affecting their peers ie throttle, reduce the
> problem traffic.
>
> Hence why, I would where possible, move to more responsible providers who
> don't still think its the 1990s and that "Tier1s" are the core of the
> Internet (as you point out out content is > 50% of the Internet and is the
> network core of the 2010s).
>
> Steve
>
>
>> Charles
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>> That standoff has been going on for some time, and I would guess with
>>> the recent court ruling regarding "net neutrality", it's not going to get
>>> better until Netflix pays VZ and other large eyeball networks to carry
>>> their traffic (or pays twice, depending on your perspective).
>>>
>>> Charles
>>>
>>> timely news item:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/02/netflix-performance-on-verizon-and-comcast-has-been-dropping-for-months/
>>>
>>> >
>>> > Who else is having the same issue?
>>> >
>>> > I threaten to cancel my service, Cogent says, "sorry to lose you as a
>>> customer", and go on their merry way.
>>> >
>>> > Are other transit providers having issues peering / getting to
>>> ATT/Verizon? I need to know who to avoid.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > traceroute to 71.252.251.1 (71.252.251.1), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
>>> > 1  gi3-11.ccr01.sfo02.atlas.cogentco.com (38.104.130.89)  0.982 ms
>>>  0.985 ms  1.195 ms
>>> > 2  te0-0-0-28.ccr22.sfo01.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.3.129)  0.531 ms
>>> te0-0-0-28.ccr21.sfo01.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.3.121)  0.604 ms
>>>  0.636 ms
>>> > 3  be2165.ccr22.sjc01.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.28.66)  2.277 ms
>>> be2164.ccr21.sjc01.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.28.34)  1.806 ms  2.449 ms
>>> > 4  be2000.ccr21.sjc03.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.6.106)  3.824 ms
>>>  2.504 ms  2.596 ms
>>> > 5  * * verizon.sjc03.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.12.170)  94.373 ms
>>> > 6  * * *
>>> > 7  * * *
>>> > 8  L100.DLLSTX-VFTTP-64.verizon-gni.net (71.252.251.1)  135.242 ms
>>>  86.272 ms  86.231 ms
>>> >
>>> >
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>>
>>
>>
>
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