<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 8 February 2013 03:48, Patrick W. Gilmore <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:patrick@ianai.net" target="_blank">patrick@ianai.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
On Feb 07, 2013, at 21:01 , Stephen Wilcox <<a href="mailto:steve.wilcox@ixreach.com">steve.wilcox@ixreach.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> On 8 February 2013 01:47, Corey Quinn <<a href="mailto:corey@sequestered.net">corey@sequestered.net</a>> wrote:<br>
>> On Feb 7, 2013, at 5:41 PM, Stephen Wilcox <<a href="mailto:steve.wilcox@ixreach.com">steve.wilcox@ixreach.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
>> No, it qualifies given that almost every consumer (and a fair few<br>
>> business) facing service out there lets you use either Twitter or Facebook<br>
>> to authenticate; it's in the same bucket as 8.8.8.8 going down. Widespread<br>
>> service failures for end users result if it happens, and is the kind of<br>
>> thing that's useful to understand in the context of "why is the helpdesk<br>
>> phone exploding."<br>
><br>
> The problem here is that 8.8.8.8 as well as many large web sites are<br>
> distributed. Its legitimately down for you and not for 95% of the rest of<br>
> its users which may in turn be only a small % of the wider telecom/internet<br>
> user base.<br>
<br>
And a cut between L3 & Sprint, or NYC & LON, which you seem to think qualify, is still "local" and "may in turn be only a small % of the wider telecom/internet user base".<br>
<br>
Aren't definitions fun?<br>
<br>
<br>
> Its also clear from the recent posts that the details of how operators like<br>
> Facebook and Google architect their applications is not well understood by<br>
> its users.<br>
<br>
Oh, please, the details of how Operators like L3 & COLT operate their fiber infrastructure is not understood by L3 & COLT!<br>
<br>
<br>
> Hence we have issues reported which result in large threads which end up<br>
> being of little use to anyone, even the users of those apps.<br>
><br>
> Signal to Noise = poor<br>
<br>
I think the S:N ratio is orthogonal to whether it is FB, DNS, or fiber.<br>
<br>
<br>
> I refer again to the list's already written mandate: "failures of major<br>
> communications infrastructure components having significant<br>
> traffic-carrying capacity"<br>
<br>
Assume Akamai has an outage (using an intentionally impossible scenario just to prove a point :). Would that be "communications infrastructure"? Akamai has essentially zero fiber. How about "significant traffic-carrying capacity"? Akamai has no network. Is it useful to the outages community?<br>
<br>
I would argue that "communications infrastructure" can easily encompass more than routers, DWDM, and fiber. I would also argue that things which direct enormous amounts of traffic (FB, Netflix, Google, iPlayer, etc.) count, even though they do not actually _carry_ any traffic.<br>
<br>
<br>
> This is definitely not encompassing Layer-7. I understand its important to<br>
> a set of users, thats why I suggest there ought to be a place where those<br>
> users can discuss those issues.<br>
<br>
This list isn't for discussion, we have -discuss for that. (And I wonder if this thread should be there?)<br>
<br>
This list is for notification. And I would like to be notified if 8.8.8.8 or Netflix is down.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>And I would like to be notified if my local Papa Johns has any specials on combo pizza and chicken strips...</div>
<div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
The list owners (or a vote of the members? I don't know how this works) can decide otherwise. But your arguments are unpersuasive.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I'm just quoting what the mailman page says the list is for.... if that description is wrong, then I'm on the wrong list. </div>
<div><br></div><div>Steve</div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
OTOH: I don't like seeing long threads of useless info (e.g. "Is FB down? I can't load it." with no other info) any more than the next guy. But I repeat, that's orthogonal to the thing which is down. We see just as many clueless "fiber cut" notices as "google is down" notices, if not more.<br>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
--<br>
TTFN,<br>
patrick<br>
<br>
<br>
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