<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">On Feb 10, 2014, at 9:12 PM, Stephen Wilcox wrote:<br><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">On 11 February 2014 01:56, Charles Sprickman <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:spork@bway.net" target="_blank">spork@bway.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=""><br>
On Feb 10, 2014, at 8:02 PM, Rusty Hodge wrote:<br>
<br>
> We are seeing lots of problems with our audio streaming traffic dropping lots of packets where our transit provider Cogent hands off to ATT & Verizon.<br>
><br>
> Right now, I'm seeing 43% packet loss<br>
><br>
> Cogent is blaming ATT/Verizon and says there is nothing they can do about it. We're the collateral damage.<br>
<br>
</div>Isn't this the result of VZ/Comcast/ATT and others refusing peering with Netflix and Netflix purchasing transit via Cogent to reach them?<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Its more complicated than that - Netflix pays CDNs, transits etc for delivery of much of its content.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>And VZ wants some payment from Netflix as well - most likely by selling Netflix transit I suppose.</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">
<div>The original email as I understood was a user seeing packet loss between their business Internet service with Verizon and either a server hosted within Cogent or another Internet access service. ie an end user trying to connect with another end user/host. As such I don't think its about Netflix, but this end user who is paying two providers neither of which are delivering.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Netflix's overall traffic volume is huge. If Cogent is in fact the path of last resort to Verizon for Netflix, and VZ and Cogent are having a spat, this would obviously impact everyone looking to move traffic between VZ and Cogent, not just Netflix customers.</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">
<div>I would complain to both. I'd also try moving - preferably at both sides.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>On the residential side, you have a duopoly if you're lucky, moving isn't an option for everyone. And if Comcast is also having issues, then you've exhausted both of your options (cable and FiOS).</div><div><br></div><div>Total speculation, but seeing the complaints from FiOS users about Netflix, Youtube and Amazon makes me think VZ is really itching to test the new court ruling. All three of those "problem networks" have great peering terms, yet VZ, from what I can see does not peer with any of them. On our network, I see more than 50% of our traffic lands on Google or Amazon - as an ISP, it's pretty bold to decide to reach those networks via anything but a peering relationship.</div><div><br></div><div>Charles</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><br></div><div>Steve</div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
That standoff has been going on for some time, and I would guess with the recent court ruling regarding "net neutrality", it's not going to get better until Netflix pays VZ and other large eyeball networks to carry their traffic (or pays twice, depending on your perspective).<br>
<br>
Charles<br>
<br>
timely news item:<br>
<br>
<a href="http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/02/netflix-performance-on-verizon-and-comcast-has-been-dropping-for-months/" target="_blank">http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/02/netflix-performance-on-verizon-and-comcast-has-been-dropping-for-months/</a><br>
<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br>
><br>
> Who else is having the same issue?<br>
><br>
> I threaten to cancel my service, Cogent says, "sorry to lose you as a customer", and go on their merry way.<br>
><br>
> Are other transit providers having issues peering / getting to ATT/Verizon? I need to know who to avoid.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> traceroute to 71.252.251.1 (71.252.251.1), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets<br>
> 1 <a href="http://gi3-11.ccr01.sfo02.atlas.cogentco.com/" target="_blank">gi3-11.ccr01.sfo02.atlas.cogentco.com</a> (38.104.130.89) 0.982 ms 0.985 ms 1.195 ms<br>
> 2 <a href="http://te0-0-0-28.ccr22.sfo01.atlas.cogentco.com/" target="_blank">te0-0-0-28.ccr22.sfo01.atlas.cogentco.com</a> (154.54.3.129) 0.531 ms <a href="http://te0-0-0-28.ccr21.sfo01.atlas.cogentco.com/" target="_blank">te0-0-0-28.ccr21.sfo01.atlas.cogentco.com</a> (154.54.3.121) 0.604 ms 0.636 ms<br>
> 3 <a href="http://be2165.ccr22.sjc01.atlas.cogentco.com/" target="_blank">be2165.ccr22.sjc01.atlas.cogentco.com</a> (154.54.28.66) 2.277 ms <a href="http://be2164.ccr21.sjc01.atlas.cogentco.com/" target="_blank">be2164.ccr21.sjc01.atlas.cogentco.com</a> (154.54.28.34) 1.806 ms 2.449 ms<br>
> 4 <a href="http://be2000.ccr21.sjc03.atlas.cogentco.com/" target="_blank">be2000.ccr21.sjc03.atlas.cogentco.com</a> (154.54.6.106) 3.824 ms 2.504 ms 2.596 ms<br>
> 5 * * <a href="http://verizon.sjc03.atlas.cogentco.com/" target="_blank">verizon.sjc03.atlas.cogentco.com</a> (154.54.12.170) 94.373 ms<br>
> 6 * * *<br>
> 7 * * *<br>
> 8 <a href="http://L100.DLLSTX-VFTTP-64.verizon-gni.net/" target="_blank">L100.DLLSTX-VFTTP-64.verizon-gni.net</a> (71.252.251.1) 135.242 ms 86.272 ms 86.231 ms<br>
><br>
><br>
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