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Matt,
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<div>I support many financial networks, and comply with the same FINRA rule 6820 you do. This rule doesn’t state that the time must be synchronized
<i>over the Internet using public IP addresses,</i> but only “to within a fifty (50) millisecond tolerance of the time maintained by the atomic clock” at NIST<i>.</i> Because GPS clock times are legally traceable to NIST, and deviation logs are available in
real-time, there is no reason to depend on IP-based NTP over the Internet, and good reason not to as today’s event demonstrates. The 1ms accuracy is well within the 50ms limit.</div>
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<div> -mel </div>
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<blockquote type="cite">On Jun 14, 2021, at 7:06 AM, Matthew Huff <mhuff@ox.com> wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"">Of course.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"">Like I stated in the original email, we don’t use NIST for time sync. We actually have a GPS and a PTP feed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><span style="mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"">WE MUST, HOWEVER, VALIDATE OUR SYSTEM TIMES VERSUS THE INTERNET NIST SERVERS VIA FINRA
REGULATIONS<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"">Yes, it is stupid<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"">Yes, it isn’t a good idea<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"">But if we don’t want to get fined and prevented from trading, we have to follow FINRA regulations.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-no-proof:yes">Matthew Huff</span></b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-no-proof:yes">
| Director of Technical Operations | OTA Management LLC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU" style="font-size:4.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-AU;mso-no-proof:yes"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-no-proof:yes">Office: 914-460-4039<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-no-proof:yes"><a href="mailto:mhuff@ox.com"><span style="color:#0563C1">mhuff@ox.com</span></a>
| </span></i><i><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-no-proof:yes"><a href="http://www.ox.com"><span style="color:#0563C1">www.ox.com</span></a><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:gray;mso-no-proof:yes">...........................................................................................................................................<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"">From:</span></b><span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman""> Mel Beckman <mel@beckman.org>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 14, 2021 9:40 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Matthew Huff <mhuff@ox.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> outages@outages.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [outages] DNS SERVFAIL for nist.gov<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"">You should consider eliminating dependence on Internet-delivered NIST time and switch to GPS-based time servers. The GPS network has its own airborne atomic
clocks that use a well-disciplined protocol to synchronize to NIST reference atomic time without transiting the Internet.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"">According to NIST’s documentation:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black">“Currently, the GPS system provides time to the general public with uncertainties measured
in nanoseconds. With a well-designed receiver system the user can obtain the time to better than 100 ns in a few minutes, and to about +/- 10 ns with a 24 hour average (and a good local clock).”</span><span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman""><br>
<br>
All sources of error in GPS time propagation total less than one millisecond, well within your 50ms tolerance. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman""><a href="https://www.nist.gov/pml/time-and-frequency-division/time-services/one-way-gps-time-transfer">https://www.nist.gov/pml/time-and-frequency-division/time-services/one-way-gps-time-transfer</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"">NIST maintains publicly-accessible logs of al clock differences to provide documented compliance under FINRA clock synchronization rules.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div><image001.jpg></div>
<o:p></o:p></span>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"">The log has a one-hour resolution, satisfying the FINRA requirement to verify <span style="color:black">synchronization </span>“throughout the day”. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"">IP-based GPS clocks are widely available with low-drift
<span style="color:black">oven-controlled crystal oscillators (OXCO), or even </span>internal cesium-based atomic clocks, for as little as a few thousand dollars. This lets you ride out time signal outages of days or even weeks. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"">The US DHS recommends discontinuation of unauthenticated Internet-based reference clocks, owing to their vulnerability to IP address spoofing:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman""><a href="https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/GPS-PNT-Best-Practices-Time-Frequency-Sources-Fixed-Locations-508.pdf">https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/GPS-PNT-Best-Practices-Time-Frequency-Sources-Fixed-Locations-508.pdf</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"">-mel via cell<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"">On Jun 14, 2021, at 3:51 AM, Matthew Huff via Outages <<a href="mailto:outages@outages.org">outages@outages.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"">We have to query and compare against NIST time servers for FINRA compliance This morning I noticed our systems are unable to DNS query the NIST time servers. Neither our local resolvers or google (8.8.8.8)
work.<br>
<br>
[root@bacall log]# dig @8.8.8.8 time-a-g.nist.gov<br>
<br>
; <<>> DiG 9.11.4-P2-RedHat-9.11.4-26.P2.el7_9.5 <<>> @8.8.8.8 time-a-g.nist.gov<br>
; (1 server found)<br>
;; global options: +cmd<br>
;; Got answer:<br>
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: SERVFAIL, id: 36018<br>
;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 1<br>
<br>
;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION:<br>
; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 512<br>
;; QUESTION SECTION:<br>
;time-a-g.nist.gov. IN A<br>
<br>
;; Query time: 6 msec<br>
;; SERVER: 8.8.8.8#53(8.8.8.8)<br>
;; WHEN: Mon Jun 14 06:27:45 EDT 2021<br>
;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 46<br>
<br>
[root@bacall log]# dig @8.8.8.8 nist.gov in soa<br>
<br>
; <<>> DiG 9.11.4-P2-RedHat-9.11.4-26.P2.el7_9.5 <<>> @8.8.8.8 nist.gov in soa<br>
; (1 server found)<br>
;; global options: +cmd<br>
;; Got answer:<br>
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: SERVFAIL, id: 17779<br>
;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 1<br>
<br>
;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION:<br>
; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 512<br>
;; QUESTION SECTION:<br>
;nist.gov. IN SOA<br>
<br>
;; Query time: 5 msec<br>
;; SERVER: 8.8.8.8#53(8.8.8.8)<br>
;; WHEN: Mon Jun 14 06:31:59 EDT 2021<br>
;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 37<br>
<br>
The time servers are documented here: <a href="https://tf.nist.gov/tf-cgi/servers.cgi">
https://tf.nist.gov/tf-cgi/servers.cgi</a><br>
<br>
Using the IP addresses work, it look like the nist.gov domain is offline.<br>
<br>
Matthew Huff | Director of Technical Operations | OTA Management LLC<br>
<br>
Office: 914-460-4039<br>
<a href="mailto:mhuff@ox.com">mhuff@ox.com</a> | <a href="http://www.ox.com">www.ox.com</a><br>
.........................................................................................................................................<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Outages mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Outages@outages.org">Outages@outages.org</a><br>
<a href="https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/outages">https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/outages</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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