[VoiceOps] Audio latency in DC area, Part 2

Jon Schnelz jschnelz at enterprisepcs.com
Thu Oct 6 09:54:43 EDT 2011


Hey David have you tested the following scenarios:

1) Out of area Cell phone roams into the affected market(s)
2) Assigning a Wash DC DID to a phone in your PDX market and testing with a
PDX cell phone.

In the first case the out of area phone will use a TLDN that is typically a
non-cellular DID (it is typically part of the wireline network for the
wireless carrier). 

The second scenario should remove the local market handoff between the cell
carriers and level3. You might also try a Wash DC assigned cell phone used
in PDX to the Wash DC DID.

We had a similar problem with Nextel phones to Level3 DID's which turned out
to be a SIP trunk issue between Sprint and Level3 (it was on Sprint's side).
We had to get Level3 to open a ticket with Sprint for testing. Since this is
all carriers, it points to a Level3 issue (if they are L3 DID's on your VOIP
phones)

Jon Schnelz




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Today's Topics:

   1. AT&T Right of Ways (Carlos Alcantar)
   2. Re: AT&T Right of Ways (Paul Timmins)
   3. Re: AT&T Right of Ways (Carlos Alcantar)
   4. Audio latency in DC area, Part 2 (David Hiers)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 20:17:11 +0000
From: Carlos Alcantar <carlos at race.com>
To: VoiceOps <voiceops at voiceops.org>
Subject: [VoiceOps] AT&T Right of Ways
Message-ID: <CAB20AED.474CC%carlos at race.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Anyone familiar with doing all the paper work and design work for using the
right of ways in the AT&T states?  We have the row in our ICA amendments and
looking for the first time to possibly use them.


Carlos Alcantar

Race Communications / Race Team Member
101 Haskins Way, So. San Francisco, CA. 94080
Phone: +1 415 376 3314  Fax:  +1 650 246 8901 / carlos at race.com /
www.race.com<http://www.race.com/>

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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2011 19:52:23 -0400
From: Paul Timmins <paul at timmins.net>
To: Carlos Alcantar <carlos at race.com>
Cc: VoiceOps <voiceops at voiceops.org>
Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] AT&T Right of Ways
Message-ID: <4E8CEDB7.2060402 at timmins.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"

As far as I know, most of the time you're going to need contractors
certified to work in AT&T's ducts and manholes anyway (or people with
requisite training to engineer the cabling for proper anchoring, wind load,
and other things on aerial cable). Most of them are familiar with the ROW
application process. If you don't have people who are qualified to do the
engineering to demonstrate your cable won't unduly damage the poles, and has
appropriate wind load, you've got a lot of work and education ahead of you
unless you use a qualified contractor anyway.

If you want to do your own, my suggestion is to have someone else do your
first set, and then you have a working copy of all the paperwork and the
complex processes necessary to make it all work. In Michigan, for example,
you also need permitting from the municipality even though you're using the
existing utilities easement, which if you're a CLEC there's a process called
the METRO act that you go through that gives you basically rubber stamped
right of way access (you still need the pole attachments from the ILEC, or
the duct assignments).

Additionally, if you're going aerial, you need to inspect the route to
ensure AT&T owns the poles you need access to. They can only give you ROW on
poles they own (I think joint use agreements count here too) but if they
lease the poles from the power company you will have to work with them to
get access as well.

-Paul

On 10/05/2011 04:17 PM, Carlos Alcantar wrote:
> Anyone familiar with doing all the paper work and design work for 
> using the right of ways in the AT&T states?  We have the row in our 
> ICA amendments and looking for the first time to possibly use them.
>
> *Carlos Alcantar*
>
> *Race Communications*/ Race Team Member
> 101 Haskins Way, So. San Francisco, CA. 94080
> *Phone:***+1 415 376 3314*Fax:*****+1 650 246 
> 8901*/***carlos at race.com*/***www.race.com <http://www.race.com/>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> VoiceOps mailing list
> VoiceOps at voiceops.org
> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops

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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2011 02:18:51 +0000
From: Carlos Alcantar <carlos at race.com>
To: VoiceOps <voiceops at voiceops.org>, Paul Timmins <paul at timmins.net>
Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] AT&T Right of Ways
Message-ID: <CAB25EB3.47550%carlos at race.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hey Paul,

Ultimately I would like to find someone who is familiar with the att process
as well as someone who is familiar with the engineering side of the rows.
I've not had much luck finding a construction company that is familiar with
this entire process.  If you know anyone that is looking for some work that
has these qualifications please pass me there name.


Carlos Alcantar

Race Communications / Race Team Member
101 Haskins Way, So. San Francisco, CA. 94080
Phone: +1 415 376 3314  Fax:  +1 650 246 8901 / carlos at race.com /
www.race.com<http://www.race.com/>


From: Paul Timmins <paul at timmins.net<mailto:paul at timmins.net>>
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 19:52:23 -0400
To: Carlos Alcantar <carlos at race.com<mailto:carlos at race.com>>
Cc: VoiceOps <voiceops at voiceops.org<mailto:voiceops at voiceops.org>>
Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] AT&T Right of Ways

As far as I know, most of the time you're going to need contractors
certified to work in AT&T's ducts and manholes anyway (or people with
requisite training to engineer the cabling for proper anchoring, wind load,
and other things on aerial cable). Most of them are familiar with the ROW
application process. If you don't have people who are qualified to do the
engineering to demonstrate your cable won't unduly damage the poles, and has
appropriate wind load, you've got a lot of work and education ahead of you
unless you use a qualified contractor anyway.

If you want to do your own, my suggestion is to have someone else do your
first set, and then you have a working copy of all the paperwork and the
complex processes necessary to make it all work. In Michigan, for example,
you also need permitting from the municipality even though you're using the
existing utilities easement, which if you're a CLEC there's a process called
the METRO act that you go through that gives you basically rubber stamped
right of way access (you still need the pole attachments from the ILEC, or
the duct assignments).

Additionally, if you're going aerial, you need to inspect the route to
ensure AT&T owns the poles you need access to. They can only give you ROW on
poles they own (I think joint use agreements count here too) but if they
lease the poles from the power company you will have to work with them to
get access as well.

-Paul

On 10/05/2011 04:17 PM, Carlos Alcantar wrote:
Anyone familiar with doing all the paper work and design work for using the
right of ways in the AT&T states?  We have the row in our ICA amendments and
looking for the first time to possibly use them.


Carlos Alcantar

Race Communications / Race Team Member
101 Haskins Way, So. San Francisco, CA. 94080
Phone: +1 415 376 3314  Fax:  +1 650 246 8901 /
carlos at race.com<mailto:carlos at race.com> / www.race.com<http://www.race.com/>



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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2011 06:30:32 -0700
From: David Hiers <hiersd at gmail.com>
To: VoiceOps at voiceops.org
Subject: [VoiceOps] Audio latency in DC area, Part 2
Message-ID:
	<CANpkwCZ2ZxzLVmN4aOhW2pr4Rf403KpHoKxtB7KgUD3_gvVadg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hi folks,

I want to send out another shout regarding an on-going issue in the DC area.
We've got excessive audio delay between our voip phones and cell phones.
Packet specs (loss, jitter, etc) are fine, ping times for everything rock.

Specifically, these rate centers are involved:

DALE CITY
HERNDON
MANASSAS
WSNGTNZN08
WSNGTNZN17

but NOT this nearby one:

TRIANGLE

Here are some of the voip NPA/NXXs involved:

703647
703880
703508
703647
240283

The issue affects any cell in the area.  All our test calls are local; the
cell phone is in the same building as the voip phone.
The cell phone has and has strong signal.

We've measured audio latency of up to 550ms; it is just impossible to hold a
conversation.


In all cases:

1. VOIP-to-CELL calls are slower than CELL-to-VOIP 2. 3G is slower than GSM
3. PSTN-VOIP calls are good 4. PSTN-CELL calls are good
5  Only VOIP-CELL calls are bad

Anyone got any issues in the DC area?  Would your users report this kind of
problem?  The DC area comes in near the bottom of the list on most of the
"bad cell phone area" studies, so most cell users there have had tolerance
of this sort of thing beat into them over the years.


Thanks,

David


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