[VoiceOps] LNP, tandems, etc.

Thu Aug 30 14:14:46 EDT 2018

Just because Comcast has the tandem switch association wrong in the LERG 
doesn't mean everyone else does. The 10K block establishes the routing 
for the LRN block only. 1K blocks are routed via the LRN of each carrier 
via NPAC, but the owner of the 1K block still has to publish their own 
routing record in the LERG. (To figure out how each carrier routes 
traffic from a particular rate center, you match up their NPA-NXX / rate 
center / Switch in LERG 6 with their switch homing arrangement record in 
LERG 7 SHA).

Mary Lou Carey

BackUP Telecom Consulting

Office: 615-771-7868 (temporary)

Cell: 615-796-1111

On 2018-08-29 08:49 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
> So then in my situation:
> https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-detail?npa=815&exchange=901
> 
> Comcast has 815-901 as well as 815-901-0. Verizon Wireless has 1k-8k.
> 9k I guess would be either not provisioned or default back to Comcast
> because they have the 10k block. Because they have the parent 10k
> block, are they then required to have a connection to the tandem I'm
> on anyway? The 1k block I now understand could be elsewhere, but the
> 10k?
> 
> Interesting that AT&T U-Verse voice isn't on legacy AT&T
> infrastructure.
> 
> -----
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange
> http://www.midwest-ix.com
> 
> -------------------------
> 
> FROM: paul at timmins.net
> TO: voiceops at ics-il.net, voiceops at voiceops.org,
> marylou at backuptelecom.com
> CC: voiceops at voiceops.org, marylou at backuptelecom.com
> SENT: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 7:08:15 PM
> SUBJECT: Re: [VoiceOps] LNP, tandems, etc.
> 
> Thousands blocks are basically just a fancy LNP operation. Your tandem
> homing has to follow 10k blocks, and the 1k blocks are basically mass
> ported to your LRN. Even if the numbers are usually homed a certain
> way because they are in a ratecenter, they won't be in this case
> because they are ported numbers and supposed to be routed to your LRN.
> Example would be the Detroit LATA where there are about 6 or so AT&T
> and other tandems. I'm homed off WBFDMIMN20T. The local carrier has
> local/local toll trunks to me all over the place, but all intercarrier
> calls and out of area calls other than local traffic from AT&T LEC
> comes through my LRN 248-574-7678 off WBFDMIMN20T. This saves me from
> having to create FGD trunking ports to all the other tandems in the
> region, only the barely used local/intra trunking from AT&T ILEC, who
> has moved most customers to their uverse VoIP affiliate here, and
> those don't use the local/intra trunks either.
> 
> It lowers my capex and opex having potentially over
> provisioned/underutilized trunking all over the place, saves numbers
> and decreases the need for splits and overlays, and even saves at&t
> money. Only people who lose out are ribbon and metaswitch (and whoever
> supports at&ts 5ESS and EWSD deployments) on licensing and support
> costs for unneeded channels.
> 
> On Aug 29, 2018 19:51, Mike Hammett <voiceops at ics-il.net> wrote:
> 
>> "they give you market entry without the technical need to establish
>> extra homing arrangements that aren't beneficial to you."
>> 
>> Could you elaborate on that?
>> 
>> -----
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange
>> http://www.midwest-ix.com
>> 
>> -------------------------
>> 
>> FROM: paul at timmins.net
>> TO: marylou at backuptelecom.com, ptimmins at clearrate.com,
>> voiceops at voiceops.org
>> CC: voiceops at voiceops.org, ptimmins at clearrate.com
>> SENT: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 6:05:39 PM
>> SUBJECT: Re: [VoiceOps] LNP, tandems, etc.
>> 
>> I've had some interesting arguments with other carriers regarding
>> their obligation to connect to us. Oh, you aren't connected where
>> I'm homed? Go order connectivity then.
>> 
>> They have a little more power to make demands when you have more
>> than 24 standing calls to them, but by and large with these stubborn
>> providers we never do, and when they have complained i've given them
>> a location they can install 1 way trunks to me at (as I have no
>> desire to terminate traffic to them directly), and they always balk
>> and find some other way of dealing with it because it was all well
>> and good until it was their money they were spending instead of
>> mine. The trick ends up being to never do 10k blocks when you don't
>> have to. Thousands blocks aren't just great for number
>> consolidation, they give you market entry without the technical need
>> to establish extra homing arrangements that aren't beneficial to
>> you. Sure sometimes you're the guy who has to own the 10k block, bu
>> 
>>> That's true if the ILEC has an agreement with the tandem provider.
>>> There are some little ILECs that have their own tandem and refuse
>>> to use the big ILEC tandem provider! You have to look at the
>>> routing of the ILEC switch in the LERG to figure that out. Mary
>>> Lou Carey BackUP Telecom Consulting Office: 615-771-7868
>>> (temporary) Cell: 615-796-1111 On 2018-08-29 11:38 AM, Paul
>>> Timmins wrote: > You don't actually have to establish connectivity
>>> to all ILECs in an > area, even if you are porting out numbers
>>> from their ratecenters. The > ILECs already have to have a way to
>>> reach any other tandem in the LATA > so as long as you have an LRN
>>> homed on A tandem in the area, and port > your numbers to that,
>>> you're good to go. > > The ILECs don't LIKE it, but if we cared
>>> what they truly liked we'd > all just leave the market. > > On Aug
>>> 29, 2018 12:33, BackUP Telecom Consulting > wrote: > > When there
>>> are multiple ILECs in a LATA like in LA - LATA 730, you > would >
>>> set up an interconnection point with each ILEC. So you'd have one
>>> for > the AT&T areas and one for the old Verizon areas. When you
>>> have trunks > > to both carriers in the LATA, you can use your own
>>> network to switch > traffic from the one LATA to the other LATA,
>>> but you can't deliver it > to > the ILEC and expect them to hand
>>> it off to the other ILEC. It would > work > the same with the
>>> third party providers.......as long as they have a > connection in
>>> both ILEC areas, then they can use their own network to > deliver
>>> the traffic from the one ILEC area to the other ILEC area. > >
>>> Mary Lou Carey > > BackUP Telecom Consulting > > Office:
>>> 615-771-7868 (temporary) > > Cell: 615-796-1111 > > On 2018-08-28
>>> 08:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: >> I thought everyone connected to
>>> the ILEC-hosted tandem responsible > for >> the rate centers where
>>> the number blocks were assigned, but that > seems >> to not always
>>> be the case when there are multiple ILEC-hosted > tandems >> in a
>>> LATA. >> >> ----- >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing
>>> Solutions >> http://www.ics-il.com >> >> Midwest Internet Exchange
>>>>> http://www.midwest-ix.com >> >> ------------------------- >> >>
>>> FROM: "Erik" >> TO: "Mike Hammett" >> CC: voiceops at voiceops.org >>
>>> SENT: Tuesday, August 28, 2018 7:25:40 PM >> SUBJECT: Re:
>>> [VoiceOps] LNP, tandems, etc. >> >> Most providers simply connect
>>> to the tandem at the ILEC. The end >> office transit termination
>>> and origination cost is SO LOW that it >> doesn't make since to
>>> have a switch or access point at the end > office. >> Since most
>>> things are ILEC if not all are VOIP everything is coming >> from a
>>> centralize switch point. Hopefully all the 1970's billing >>
>>> methods will disappear. >> >> On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 1:00 PM,
>>> Mike Hammett >> wrote: >> >>> Meaning if I thought were true? I
>>> had just assumed that Inteliquent >>> did have the connections to
>>> every tandem in the LATAs they serve, >>> given that (my thought)
>>> that you could only port numbers on the > same >>> tandem, so
>>> universal coverage would require connections to every >>> tandem.
>>> We're actually looking at someone like Inteliquent to > expand >>>
>>> our footprint. >>> >>> So I'm supposed to be connected to every
>>> tandem in my LATA? In my >>> LATA, there are only two (I believe),
>>> but some LATAs (like Chicago) >>> have several. I'm supposed to
>>> drag a DS1 (or use Inteliquent, etc. >>> if available) to connect
>>> to each one, even if I don't provide >>> service in the rate
>>> centers traditionally served by that tandem? It >>> seems like
>>> Comcast threw a dart at a dart board in choosing which >>> tandem
>>> to connect to vs. going with the one that everyone else in >>>
>>> that town uses. >>> >>> So then I could port a number from any
>>> rate center in my LATA (say >>> Savanna) and point it to my LRN,
>>> living off of a tandem switch that >>> the Savanna ILEC isn't
>>> connected to (from my outside world >>> perspective)? Is there
>>> even the LATA constraint? Given the porting >>> limitations I had
>>> experienced in the VoIP world, I assumed it was a >>>
>>> tandem-by-tandem basis. >>> >>> So the LERG shows which tandem I
>>> need to send traffic to if I want >>> to talk to them, but they
>>> could send their outbound calls to a >>> different tandem? My
>>> current customer complaint is for calls that >>> we're sending to
>>> Comcast, apparently homed off of the other tandem. >>> >>> If
>>> everyone is supposed to be on every tandem, then why can't the >>>
>>> tandem I'm on just accept the calls I'm sending to Comcast, since
>>>>>> Comcast should be there? Obviously me not being on the other
>>> tandem >>> would affect inbound traffic to me. >>> >>> Is there
>>> another service I should be paying Frontier for to get me >>> to
>>> the other tandem with some value-add service? I know CenturyLink
>>>>>> hops through almost every town going that way (former
>>> LightCore and >>> others before route). Frontier or CenturyLink
>>> may be able to get me >>> a DS1 to the other tandem if I need
>>> that. >>> >>> I'm aware that I could still be completely missing
>>> the mark. >>> >>> BTW: Thanks for TelcoData. I subscribed a long
>>> time ago, but > haven't >>> for many ages. >>> >>> ----- >>> Mike
>>> Hammett >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions >>>
>>> http://www.ics-il.com >>> >>> Midwest Internet Exchange >>>
>>> http://www.midwest-ix.com >>> >>> ------------------------- >>>
>>>>>> FROM: "Paul Timmins" >>> TO: "Mike Hammett" >>> CC:
>>> voiceops at voiceops.org >>> SENT: Tuesday, August 28, 2018 5:19:11
>>> PM >>> SUBJECT: Re: [VoiceOps] LNP, tandems, etc. >>> >>> If that
>>> were true, you wouldn't be able to use inteliquent (et al) >>> as
>>> your access tandem. Everyone is supposed to be directly or >>>
>>> indirectly connected to every tandem in the LATA (which you can't
>>>>>> independently verify, as telcodata and the LERG both show >>>
>>> terminating tandem information to reach that end office, not what
>>>>>> tandems the end office is hooked to to terminate calls. >>>
>>>>>> On Aug 28, 2018 17:47, Mike Hammett wrote: >>> >>> I thought
>>> you had to be on the same tandem to port a number, but >>> with
>>> what our tandem operator (Frontier) is telling me, this isn't >>>
>>> the case. >>> >>> Comcast ported a number from us in town A. The
>>> LRN they pointed to >>> is based in town B (per TelcoData). The
>>> tandem generally used by >>> carriers in both towns is based in
>>> town B. Naturally, we send >>> traffic to that tandem. >>> >>> The
>>> operator of that tandem is telling us that the LRN is actually >>>
>>> homed off of a different tandem in our LATA (operated by >>>
>>> CenturyLink) in town C. Unfortunately, I can't corroborate this
>>>>>> information with TelcoData the only rate center I see off of
>>> that >>> tandem in TelcoData is an AT&T town next door. >>> >>>
>>> Where can I read up authoritatively on the porting requirements >
>>> that >>> would apply to this and related bits of info I should
>>> know? >>> >>> I'm checking on our LERG access as I know that has
>>> the > authoritative >>> information, but I don't have that access
>>> at the moment. Maybe > we're >>> not subscribed to it. >>> >>>
>>> Number NPA-NXX in town A: >>> >> >
>>> 
>> 
> https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-detail?npa=815&exchange=991
>>>> [1] >>> >>> LRN NPA-NXX in town B: >>> >> >
>>> 
>> 
> https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-detail?npa=815&exchange=901
>>>> [2] >>> >>> Tandem in town B: >>> >> >
>>> 
>> 
> https://www.telcodata.us/search-switches-by-tandem-clli?cllicode=DKLBILXA50T
>>>> [3] >>> Tandem in town C: >>> >> >
>>> 
>> 
> https://www.telcodata.us/search-switches-by-tandem-clli?cllicode=DIXNILXA50T
>>>> [4] >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> ----- >>> Mike Hammett >>>
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions >>> http://www.ics-il.com >>> >>>
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange >>> http://www.midwest-ix.com >>> >>>
>>> _______________________________________________ >>> VoiceOps
>>> mailing list >>> VoiceOps at voiceops.org >>>
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>>> mailing list >> VoiceOps at voiceops.org >>
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>>> _______________________________________________ > VoiceOps mailing
>>> list > VoiceOps at voiceops.org >
>>> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops > > > Links: >
>>> ------ > [1] >
>>> 
>> 
> https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-detail?npa=815&exchange=991
>>>> [2] >
>>> 
>> 
> https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-detail?npa=815&exchange=901
>>>> [3] >
>>> 
>> 
> https://www.telcodata.us/search-switches-by-tandem-clli?cllicode=DKLBILXA50T
>>>> [4] >
>>> 
>> 
> https://www.telcodata.us/search-switches-by-tandem-clli?cllicode=DIXNILXA50T
>>> _______________________________________________ VoiceOps mailing
>>> list VoiceOps at voiceops.org
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>> 
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