<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">One of my active carrier clients uses it with 6k+ SIP endpoints, and they've been happy with it.<div><br></div><div>When using anything that lengthens registration times to the access side of the SBC, be sure to consider the maximum failure-recovery time you need. If you have to manage the SBCs in a way that loses the registration cache, then your entire population of users will have to re-register. (For example, certain Acme Packet SD software upgrades delete the registration cache.)</div><div><br></div><div>Until they all re-register, some of your users will have no service. So, how fast can your entire CPE population re-register? This is a function of the size of your population, the performance of your SBCs, capabilities of the core-side registrar (softswitch); you don't want the re-registration storm to crash the softswitch, or create congestion collapse. You want to minimize the re-registration time to minimize the outage duration, especially since there are some FCC outage reporting implications for certain US-based VoIP carriers.</div><div><br></div><div>But, to reduce extraneous signaling load on the SBC and for your subscriber devices, you want to maximize the re-registration interval. The dynamic-HNT feature of the Acme Packet helps you do this.</div><div><br></div><div>Tradeoffs are always interesting.</div><div><br></div><div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Calibri" size="1"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 9px; "><i>mark r lindsey@e-c-group.com <a href="http://e-c-group.com/~lindsey">http://e-c-group.com/~lindsey</a> +12293160013</i></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Calibri" size="1"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 9px;"><i><br></i></span></font></div><div><br><div><div>On Sep 29, 2009, at 1:08 PM, Parkin, Tyler wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Cambria; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="Section1"><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Thanks for the feedback on Acme/STUN, guys. <o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">On a similar note, does anybody currently use Acme’s (A)HNT? It seems like an effective way to eek out the longest registration possible for a NAT’d endpoint, and tests out pretty well in our lab, I’m just wondering how well it scales in a production environment.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> <o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Tyler Parkin</span><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><a href="mailto:tparkin@nuvox.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; "><span style="color: blue; ">tparkin@nuvox.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div><div style="border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; border-top-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding-top: 3pt; padding-right: 0in; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: 0in; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>anorexicpoodle [<a href="mailto:anorexicpoodle@gmail.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">mailto:anorexicpoodle@gmail.com</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, September 23, 2009 12:28 AM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Peter Childs<br><b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Parkin, Tyler;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:voiceops@voiceops.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">voiceops@voiceops.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [VoiceOps] Acme STUN<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">Most of the poorly implemented ALG's ive found, namely some of the integrated modem/router combos Verizon and Comcast are distributing, and many of the newer linksys devices, where the ALG is good enough to not trigger HNT but doesn't keep the NAT pinhole open, or they mangle the traffic in some way that cannot be corrected on the service provider side, use regex matching to replace private addressing at layer 5, so if the layer 5 addressing has been pre-mangled by STUN the ALG doesnt touch it since it isnt in the expected pattern, and things work normally.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>The multi-nat problem is something I have typically seen in hosted PBX deployments into managed network office buildings where the managed network is behind some kind of nat device, then each tenant drops in their own soho router, so inter-office calling breaks since the SDP the Acme sees isn't correct. You could correct around this by not releasing media for same-IP traffic but thats a change with big impact for a small problem that has other solutions. Of course YMMV.<br><br><br>On Wed, 2009-09-23 at 13:25 +0930, Peter Childs wrote:<o:p></o:p></div><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; ">On 23/09/2009, at 2:49 AM, anorexicpoodle wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; ">> I have been looking at this as well, and yes there are some <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; ">> advantages but you really have to have the need.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; ">><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; ">> The good news:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; ">><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; ">> - STUN will result in lower CPU on the SD since the keepalives dont <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; ">> need to be responded to. Chances are this will not be a factor.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; ">> - Can be used when the customers endpoint is behind multiple layers <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; ">> of NAT, Acme HNT falls flat on its face in this environment.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; ">I have endpoints behind multiple layers of NAT working fine. HNT <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; ">finds the smallest pinhole existing on the NAT path.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; ">> - STUN mangled traffic will not trigger the broken ALG's in many <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; ">> newer home routers since it doesnt match the lan-side network any <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; ">> longer. If you have had the displeasure of experiencing these broken <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; ">> ALG's in customer routers (linksys, dlink etc etc), and the fact <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; ">> that they quite often cannot be disabled, it can lead to a very <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; ">> frustrating customer experience. Once again HNT and poorly <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; ">> implemented ALG's do not make for happy customers.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; ">(..)<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><o:p> </o:p></pre></div><div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><hr>This email and any attachments ("Message") may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the addressee, or if this Message has been addressed to you in error, you are not authorized to read, copy, or distribute it, and we ask that you please delete it (including all copies) and notify the sender by return email. Delivery of this Message to any person other than the intended recipient(s) shall not be deemed a waiver of confidentiality and/or a privilege.<div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>VoiceOps mailing list<br><a href="mailto:VoiceOps@voiceops.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">VoiceOps@voiceops.org</a><br><a href="https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops</a><br></div></span></blockquote></div><br><div apple-content-edited="true"> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Cambria; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Cambria; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Cambria; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Cambria; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Calibri" size="1"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 9px;"><i><br></i></span></font></div></div></span></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"> </div><br></div></div></body></html>