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Whoa, slow down there. You mentioned "the majority of deployed ATAs
seems to use T.38 v0...". I simply asked what devices you knew used
the newer standards.<br>
<br>
The reason no one is talking about it at the level you are
requesting, is because most of us probably have not heard of them.
We are in the trenches using readily available equipment, and if in
the configuration of those devices requires us to match versions of
the protocols you are describing, then we would include our
experiences in this discussion. The thread owner stated two
devices, and we replied with our experience in those.<br>
<br>
We do not make the standards, we make them work.<br>
<br>
<br>
On 12/16/2010 10:32 AM, Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht) wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:5F7BCCF5541B7444830A2288ABBEBC961D4FECFE3F@FRMRSSXCHMBSD2.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com"
type="cite">
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charset=ISO-8859-1">
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<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="781432316-16122010"><font
size="2" color="#800000" face="Trebuchet MS">The discussion
of interoperability issues concerning fax/modem in
particular and PSTN X/modem calls in general was already
topic in the past two years in the correspondent experts
groups, like</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="781432316-16122010"><font
size="2" color="#800000" face="Trebuchet MS">- ITU-T Q.14/16</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="781432316-16122010"><font
size="2" color="#800000" face="Trebuchet MS">- SIP Forum
FoIP Task Force</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="781432316-16122010"><font
size="2" color="#800000" face="Trebuchet MS">- ANSI TR 30.1</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="781432316-16122010"><font
size="2" color="#800000" face="Trebuchet MS">- ETSI TISPAN
WG3</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="781432316-16122010"><font
size="2" color="#800000" face="Trebuchet MS">- i3 Forum</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="781432316-16122010"><font
size="2" color="#800000" face="Trebuchet MS">- MSF TC
meeting and</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="781432316-16122010"><font
size="2" color="#800000" face="Trebuchet MS">- IETF MMUSIC
(concerning the usage of revised SDP Offer/Answer in SIP for
T.38, V.152).</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="781432316-16122010"></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="781432316-16122010"><font
size="2" color="#800000" face="Trebuchet MS">There isn't
much value in repeating the same discussions in other groups
again.</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="781432316-16122010"></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="781432316-16122010"><font
size="2" color="#800000" face="Trebuchet MS">Starting point
for product implementations is to point out their standard
compliance primarily against the recommendations by the
correspondent technology owners, i.e. ITU-T Q.14/16 in case
of T.38 and V.152 and IETF MMUSIC in case of SDP O/A (via
SIP).</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="781432316-16122010"><font
size="2" color="#800000" face="Trebuchet MS">NGN / IMS
compliant products on top must refer to 3GPP, ETSI TISPAN,
etc standards.</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="781432316-16122010"></span> </div>
<br>
<blockquote dir="ltr" style="padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px;
border-left: 2px solid rgb(128, 0, 0); margin-right: 0px;">
<div class="OutlookMessageHeader" dir="ltr" lang="en-us"
align="left">
<hr tabindex="-1"> <font size="2" face="Tahoma"><b>From:</b>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:voiceops-bounces@voiceops.org">voiceops-bounces@voiceops.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:voiceops-bounces@voiceops.org">mailto:voiceops-bounces@voiceops.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Lee
Riemer<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Donnerstag, 16. Dezember 2010 16:01<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:voiceops@voiceops.org">voiceops@voiceops.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [VoiceOps] Dynamic T1 Faxing over IP<br>
</font><br>
</div>
Can you list some devices that use the other versions and
standards you mention?<br>
<br>
On 12/15/2010 11:46 PM, Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht) wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:5F7BCCF5541B7444830A2288ABBEBC961D4FE529CF@FRMRSSXCHMBSD2.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com"
type="cite">
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<div dir="ltr" align="left"><font size="2" color="#800000"
face="Trebuchet MS"><span class="000103805-16122010">This
discussion is just at the surface.</span></font></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><font size="2" color="#800000"
face="Trebuchet MS"><span class="000103805-16122010">If
you talk about fax over IP, then you should include the
T.38 version, and there are 6 versions so far (T.38 v0
to v5).</span></font></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><font size="2" color="#800000"
face="Trebuchet MS"><span class="000103805-16122010">The
majority of deployed ATA's seems to use T.38 v0 from
year 1998, which is an issue.</span></font></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><font size="2" color="#800000"
face="Trebuchet MS"><span class="000103805-16122010">The
latest one is T.38 v5 (09/2010).</span></font></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><font size="2" color="#800000"
face="Trebuchet MS"><span class="000103805-16122010"></span></font> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><font size="2" color="#800000"
face="Trebuchet MS"><span class="000103805-16122010">If
you talk about G.711 pass-through, then you should again
discriminate between</span></font></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><font size="2" color="#800000"
face="Trebuchet MS"><span class="000103805-16122010">a)
V.152 VBDoIP with G.711 as VBD codec and</span></font></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><font size="2" color="#800000"
face="Trebuchet MS"><span class="000103805-16122010">b)
pseudo-VBDoIP using G.711.</span></font></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><font size="2" color="#800000"
face="Trebuchet MS"><span class="000103805-16122010"></span></font> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><font size="2" color="#800000"
face="Trebuchet MS"><span class="000103805-16122010">The
first one has a clear indication as VBD codec in the
signalling plane (like SIP, H.248, H.323, etc), which
allows to distinguish G.711 as audio codec and G.711 in
VBD mode.</span></font></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><font size="2" color="#800000"
face="Trebuchet MS"><span class="000103805-16122010">The
second one is just a mess ("G.711 pass-through") due to
the merge of audio with VBD (... and different media
configurations).</span></font></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><font size="2" color="#800000"
face="Trebuchet MS"><span class="000103805-16122010"></span></font> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><font size="2" color="#800000"
face="Trebuchet MS"><span class="000103805-16122010">All
the requirements for FoIP and VBDoIP are e.g. summarized
by <font size="3" color="#000000" face="Times New
Roman"><strong>ETSI TR 183 072 V3.1.1 (2010-09), </strong>Emulation
Services for PSTN Modem Calls.</font></span></font></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><font size="2" color="#800000"
face="Trebuchet MS"><span class="000103805-16122010"><font
size="3" color="#000000" face="Times New Roman">Which
talks also about the interop issue.</font></span></font></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><font size="2" color="#800000"
face="Trebuchet MS"><span class="000103805-16122010"><font
size="3" color="#000000" face="Times New Roman">And
one root cause are just different T.38 implementations
...</font> </span></font></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><font size="2" color="#800000"
face="Trebuchet MS"><span class="000103805-16122010"></span></font> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><font size="2" color="#800000"
face="Trebuchet MS"><span class="000103805-16122010">Thus,
any constructive discussion should address also that
level of detail.</span></font></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><font size="2" color="#800000"
face="Trebuchet MS"><span class="000103805-16122010"></span></font> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><font size="2" color="#800000"
face="Trebuchet MS"><span class="000103805-16122010">Regards,</span></font></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><font size="2" color="#800000"
face="Trebuchet MS"><span class="000103805-16122010">Albrecht</span></font></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"> </div>
<br>
<blockquote dir="ltr" style="padding-left: 5px; margin-left:
5px; border-left: 2px solid rgb(128, 0, 0); margin-right:
0px;">
<div class="OutlookMessageHeader" dir="ltr" lang="en-us"
align="left">
<hr tabindex="-1"> <font size="2" face="Tahoma"><b>From:</b>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:voiceops-bounces@voiceops.org">voiceops-bounces@voiceops.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:voiceops-bounces@voiceops.org">mailto:voiceops-bounces@voiceops.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Richey<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Donnerstag, 16. Dezember 2010 04:53<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:voiceops@voiceops.org">voiceops@voiceops.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [VoiceOps] Dynamic T1 Faxing over IP<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color:
rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family:
'Calibri','sans-serif';">The TA900s and 2431s will
handle faxing, alarms, modems, etc fine IF you do two
things. One you use point to point circuits between
you and the IAD. The other thing is avoid sending
these accounts across sip trunks that traverse the
internet. We use a combination of PRIs for local and
SIP trunks for LD. We route the “data lines” so that
their local and ld go out their closest PRI. If the
customer wants to bring their own bandwidth or they
are offnet we won’t support any kind of data calls.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color:
rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family:
'Calibri','sans-serif';"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color:
rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family:
'Calibri','sans-serif';">Richey<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color:
rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family:
'Calibri','sans-serif';"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div style="border-right: medium none; padding: 3pt 0in
0in; border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style:
solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223)
-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: 'Tahoma','sans-serif';">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
'Tahoma','sans-serif';"> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:voiceops-bounces@voiceops.org">voiceops-bounces@voiceops.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:voiceops-bounces@voiceops.org">mailto:voiceops-bounces@voiceops.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jeff Anderson<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 15, 2010 5:54 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:voiceops@voiceops.org">voiceops@voiceops.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [VoiceOps] Dynamic T1 Faxing over IP<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">We are experiencing a fair amount of
heart burn attempting to support faxing over our Dynamic
T1 product. Some customers it works great and others
have frequent problems.<br>
<br>
We currently support dynamic T1's using both Adtran
TA900 series and Cisco IAD2400 services routers. The
customers fax machines will connect to their PBX that
has a PRI to an IAD/TA. We have the IAD/TA configured
for SIP signaling to an Acme SBC selecting T.38 as the
preferred codec with fallback to g.711 pass-through. We
can force a slower speed, disable error correction,
disabled VAD but in the end still have very inconsistent
results. From a network perspective the QoS is matching
and queuing correctly, the circuits are clean and the IP
SLA gives us no reason to believe they are having any
network drops or jitter.<br>
<br>
I was wondering if others who have experience with
faxing over IP could share what they have learned works
best or anything else that may be helpful.<br>
<br>
Any help is greatly appreciated.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
Jeff<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
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</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Lee Riemer
Director of Technical Operations
Bestline Communications, L.P.
Voice: 1+512.328.9095
Fax: 1+512.328.0038</pre>
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