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    That's like saying that ISDN lines and SIP are the same thing
    because they both use G.711 ulaw with common channel signalling, and
    it's really up to the phone companies they could be using SIP over
    ISDN instead.<br>
    <br>
    The difference is that the digital data you speak of is using codecs
    designed for high loss and corruption, has a delay certain model
    (unlike packet switched data) and doesn't have overhead (like IP).<br>
    <br>
    -Paul<br>
    <br>
    On 09/14/2011 11:22 AM, Carlos Alvarez wrote:
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAFn1dUGEDdy=s90yB2y-MqnGPHzDjHgheWXgijzj1zPxLNDNNA@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">You seem to be suggesting that there is a technical
      reason the carriers don't do this.  There is not.  Carriers
      prioritize voice channels, which really are just data also, though
      not using SIP.  They *could* choose to prioritize data, or do the
      usual QoS for the data so VoIP has good quality, just like any
      other IP connection.  They won't, because it's a huge threat to
      their business model.
      <div>
        <br>
        <br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 9:07 PM, Paul
          Timmins <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:paul@timmins.net">paul@timmins.net</a>></span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt
            0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);
            padding-left: 1ex;">
            <div style="word-wrap: break-word;">
              <div>My android phones do SIP user interface integration
                over HSDPA and EVDO respectively, and frankly, the voice
                quality isn't that great. Much worse than the underlying
                GSM or CDMA signal bar for signal bar.</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>There's a reason the carriers aren't doing this yet.</div>
              <div>-Paul</div>
              <div>
                <div class="h5"><br>
                  <div>
                    <div>On Sep 13, 2011, at 11:32 PM, Scott Berkman
                      wrote:</div>
                    <br>
                    <blockquote type="cite">
                      <span style="border-collapse: separate;
                        font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal;
                        font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal;
                        letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal;
                        text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
                        white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
                        font-size: medium;">
                        <div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
                          <div>
                            <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                              Roman',serif;"><span style="font-size:
                                11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;
                                color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">You might want
                                to see if LightSquared has anything for
                                you, they dub themselves the “only
                                wholesale-only mobile carrier”, but I’m
                                not sure what they can offer today.</span></div>
                            <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                              Roman',serif;"><span style="font-size:
                                11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;
                                color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div>
                            <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                              Roman',serif;"><span style="font-size:
                                11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;
                                color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><a
                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  href="http://www.lightsquared.com/"
                                  style="color: blue; text-decoration:
                                  underline;" target="_blank">http://www.lightsquared.com/</a></span></div>
                            <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                              Roman',serif;"><span style="font-size:
                                11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;
                                color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div>
                            <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                              Roman',serif;"><span style="font-size:
                                11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;
                                color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Also, aren’t
                                some of the newer cellular technologies
                                (UMTS or EVDO) inherently built on SIP
                                for the voice portion of the network?
                                 That’s not an answer to your problem,
                                but…</span></div>
                            <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                              Roman',serif;"><span style="font-size:
                                11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;
                                color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div>
                            <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                              Roman',serif;"><span style="font-size:
                                11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;
                                color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">One other
                                thing you might want to look into is an
                                OS that allows the default phone app to
                                use SIP over the data connection
                                natively (as opposed to using a separate
                                soft phone application that might not
                                integrate as well to the UI).  I believe
                                this was preset in versions of WM6, but
                                that’s somewhat old now and I have no
                                idea if it’s built into any other
                                platforms.</span></div>
                            <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                              Roman',serif;"><span style="font-size:
                                11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;
                                color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div>
                            <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                              Roman',serif;"><span style="font-size:
                                11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;
                                color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><a
                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://voipguides.blogspot.com/2008/05/voip-sip-client-for-windows-mobile-6.html"
                                  style="color: blue; text-decoration:
                                  underline;" target="_blank">http://voipguides.blogspot.com/2008/05/voip-sip-client-for-windows-mobile-6.html</a></span></div>
                            <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                              Roman',serif;"><span style="font-size:
                                11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;
                                color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div>
                            <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                              Roman',serif;"><span style="font-size:
                                11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;
                                color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">-Scott</span></div>
                            <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                              Roman',serif;"><span style="font-size:
                                11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;
                                color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div>
                            <div style="border-style: solid none none;
                              border-top: 1pt solid rgb(181, 196, 223);
                              padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
                              <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                                font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                                Roman',serif;"><b><span
                                    style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
                                    Tahoma,sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span
                                  style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
                                  Tahoma,sans-serif;"><span> </span><a
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    href="mailto:voiceops-bounces@voiceops.org"
                                    target="_blank">voiceops-bounces@voiceops.org</a>
                                  [mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    href="mailto:voiceops-bounces@voiceops.org"
                                    target="_blank">voiceops-bounces@voiceops.org</a>]<span> </span><b>On
                                    Behalf Of<span> </span></b>Carlos
                                  Alvarez<br>
                                  <b>Sent:</b><span> </span>Tuesday,
                                  September 13, 2011 3:44 PM<br>
                                  <b>To:</b><span> </span><a
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    href="mailto:VoiceOps@voiceops.org"
                                    target="_blank">VoiceOps@voiceops.org</a><br>
                                  <b>Subject:</b><span> </span>Re:
                                  [VoiceOps] Cell Phone to SIP provider</span></div>
                            </div>
                            <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                              Roman',serif;"> </div>
                            <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                              Roman',serif;">
                              It is my understanding that:</div>
                            <div>
                              <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                                font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                                Roman',serif;"> </div>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                                font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                                Roman',serif;">a.  The original post
                                asked about sending the calls to the end
                                point (cell phone) as SIP, not cellular
                                voice.</div>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                                font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                                Roman',serif;"> </div>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                                font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                                Roman',serif;">
                                b.  Sprint's MIS (Mobile Integration
                                Service) merely allows a company or
                                service provider to connect to them
                                directly over TDM or SIP and do seamless
                                integration of the cell and other
                                phones, but the call is still cellular
                                voice to the handset.</div>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                                font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                                Roman',serif;"> </div>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                                font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                                Roman',serif;">
                                I am facing a competitive sale right now
                                to a municipality where there is only
                                one other carrier who can compete with
                                us, and only on that one feature.</div>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in
                                0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family:
                                'Times New Roman',serif;">
                                 </p>
                              <div>
                                <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                                  font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
                                  New Roman',serif;">On Tue, Sep 13,
                                  2011 at 12:33 PM, Matthew S. Crocker
                                  <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    href="mailto:matthew@corp.crocker.com"
                                    style="color: blue; text-decoration:
                                    underline;" target="_blank">matthew@corp.crocker.com</a>>
                                  wrote:</div>
                                <div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:
                                      0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                      font-family: 'Times New
                                      Roman',serif;"><span style="color:
                                        black;">Sprint does this.   The
                                        cell phones register to the cell
                                        tower as cell phones.  The cell
                                        tower converts to SIP and
                                        registers with the call agent. 
                                        Broadsoft mentioned something
                                        about this at the last
                                        connections conference.  You
                                        would get a private IP
                                        connection into Sprint to carry
                                        the voice traffic.    This would
                                        be perfect for me if Sprint had
                                        a decent cell network in my
                                        area.   Does anyone know if
                                        AT&T or Verizon (LTE) do it
                                        as well?<br>
                                        <br>
                                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          href="http://newsroom.sprint.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=1628"
                                          style="color: blue;
                                          text-decoration: underline;"
                                          target="_blank">http://newsroom.sprint.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=1628</a><br>
                                        <br>
                                      </span></p>
                                    <div class="MsoNormal"
                                      style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                                      font-size: 12pt; font-family:
                                      'Times New Roman',serif;
                                      text-align: center;"
                                      align="center"><span style="color:
                                        black;">
                                        <hr size="2" width="100%"
                                          align="center">
                                      </span></div>
                                    <blockquote style="border-style:
                                      none none none solid; border-left:
                                      1.5pt solid rgb(16, 16, 255);
                                      padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt;
                                      margin-left: 3.75pt; margin-top:
                                      5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
                                      <div style="margin: 0in 0in
                                        0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                        font-family: 'Times New
                                        Roman',serif;"><b><span
                                            style="font-family:
                                            Helvetica,sans-serif; color:
                                            black;">From:<span> </span></span></b><span
                                          style="font-family:
                                          Helvetica,sans-serif; color:
                                          black;">"Oren Yehezkely" <<a
                                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                                            href="mailto:orenyny@gmail.com"
                                            style="color: blue;
                                            text-decoration: underline;"
                                            target="_blank">orenyny@gmail.com</a>><br>
                                          <b>To:<span> </span></b>"<a
                                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                                            href="mailto:VoiceOps@voiceops.org"
                                            style="color: blue;
                                            text-decoration: underline;"
                                            target="_blank">VoiceOps@voiceops.org</a>"
                                          <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:voiceops@voiceops.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration:
                                            underline;" target="_blank">voiceops@voiceops.org</a>><br>
                                          <b>Sent:<span> </span></b>Tuesday,
                                          September 13, 2011 1:00:02 PM<br>
                                          <b>Subject:<span> </span></b>[VoiceOps]
                                          Cell Phone to SIP provider</span></div>
                                      <div>
                                        <div>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal"
                                            style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt;
                                            font-size: 12pt;
                                            font-family: 'Times New
                                            Roman',serif;">
                                            <span style="font-family:
                                              Helvetica,sans-serif;
                                              color: black;"><br>
                                              <br>
                                              Hello,<br>
                                              <br>
                                              I am looking for a cell
                                              phone company that is
                                              capable of providing SIP
                                              service instead of sending
                                              the calls over the
                                              cellular network.<br>
                                              <br>
                                              If anybody here is capable
                                              of providing such a
                                              service or can recommend a
                                              vendor that can do that,
                                              please let me know.<br>
                                              <br>
                                              Thanks,<br>
                                              <br>
                                              Oren</span></p>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <div style="margin: 0in 0in
                                          0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                          font-family: 'Times New
                                          Roman',serif;">
                                          <span style="font-family:
                                            Helvetica,sans-serif; color:
                                            black;">_______________________________________________<br>
                                            VoiceOps mailing list<br>
                                            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                              href="mailto:VoiceOps@voiceops.org"
                                              style="color: blue;
                                              text-decoration:
                                              underline;"
                                              target="_blank">VoiceOps@voiceops.org</a><br>
                                            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                              href="https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops"
                                              style="color: blue;
                                              text-decoration:
                                              underline;"
                                              target="_blank">https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops</a></span></div>
                                      </div>
                                    </blockquote>
                                    <div style="margin: 0in 0in
                                      0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                      font-family: 'Times New
                                      Roman',serif;">
                                      <span style="color: black;"> </span></div>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in
                                  0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                  font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;">
                                  <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                  VoiceOps mailing list<br>
                                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    href="mailto:VoiceOps@voiceops.org"
                                    style="color: blue; text-decoration:
                                    underline;" target="_blank">VoiceOps@voiceops.org</a><br>
                                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    href="https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops"
                                    style="color: blue; text-decoration:
                                    underline;" target="_blank">https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops</a></p>
                              </div>
                              <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                                font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                                Roman',serif;"><br>
                                <br clear="all">
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                                  font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
                                  New Roman',serif;">
                                   </div>
                              </div>
                              <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                                font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                                Roman',serif;">--</div>
                              <div>
                                <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                                  font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
                                  New Roman',serif;">
                                  Carlos Alvarez</div>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                                  font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
                                  New Roman',serif;">TelEvolve</div>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                                  font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
                                  New Roman',serif;"><a
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    href="tel:602-889-3003"
                                    value="+16028893003" target="_blank">602-889-3003</a></div>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                                  font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
                                  New Roman',serif;"> </div>
                              </div>
                              <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                                font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                                Roman',serif;">
                                 </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
_______________________________________________<br>
                          VoiceOps mailing list<br>
                          <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:VoiceOps@voiceops.org"
                            target="_blank">VoiceOps@voiceops.org</a><br>
                          <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops"
                            target="_blank">https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops</a></div>
                      </span></blockquote>
                  </div>
                  <br>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br>
        <br clear="all">
        <div><br>
        </div>
        -- <br>
        <div>Carlos Alvarez</div>
        <div>TelEvolve</div>
        <div>602-889-3003</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <br>
      </div>
      <pre wrap="">
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
_______________________________________________
VoiceOps mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:VoiceOps@voiceops.org">VoiceOps@voiceops.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops">https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
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