<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=us-ascii"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">I believe that it's not so simple as TDM v IP as well. For example a cable operator using VoIP for local lines would not use the indeterminate rates because they have a valid ANI and is originating from a local carrier(ilec/clec whatever). The real problem comes in with pure VoIP originated services, however its trivial to mask the origin and assign a local USA number to calls. The grey area in my mind comes in when you've assigned a US # for those calls when they are clearly physically originating internationally but have a US identification inside the headers.<div><br></div><div>Oh and Alex, I have seen a few us terminators offer that indeterminate rate deck. I think it's more of a CYA column combined with a bit of FUD to the originator so that the terminator can make a few hundredth's of a penny more per minute.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Colin</div><div><br></div><div><div><div>On Aug 14, 2012, at 8:46 PM, Alex Balashov <<a href="mailto:abalashov@evaristesys.com">abalashov@evaristesys.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"><div><div>How would the TDM vs IP provenance of a call normally be determined, on a technical level? </div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div style="font-size:75%;color:#575757">-- Alex<br><br>--<br>Sent from my Samsung mobile, and thus lacking in the refinement one might expect from a proper keyboard. <br><br>Alex Balashov - Principal<br>Evariste Systems LLC<br>235 E Ponce de Leon Ave<br>Suite 106<br>Decatur, GA 30030<br>Tel: +1-678-954-0670<br>Web: <a href="http://www.evaristesys.com/">http://www.evaristesys.com/</a></div></div> <br>"Hodovance, Heather" <<a href="mailto:Heather_Hodovance@cable.comcast.com">Heather_Hodovance@cable.comcast.com</a>> wrote:<br>Alex,<br><br> From my experience the "indeterminate" rates are typically associated with the ability to determine if the origination point is a VoIP device or not. If the wholesale provider is unable to determine if the call was VoIP or TDM originated then the "indeterminate" rate would apply. <br><br>Thanks, <br><br>Heather Hodovance<br>National Engineering & Technical Operations <br>PE Voice Network Planning <br>Office:720-267-7019<br>Mobile:303-885-8952<br><br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: <a href="mailto:voiceops-bounces@voiceops.org">voiceops-bounces@voiceops.org</a> [mailto:voiceops-<a href="mailto:bounces@voiceops.org">bounces@voiceops.org</a>] On Behalf Of Alex Balashov<br>Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 12:23 PM<br>To: <a href="mailto:voiceops@voiceops.org">voiceops@voiceops.org</a><br>Subject: [VoiceOps] Interstate vs. intrastate rates<br><br>Traditionally, in our trunk routing and rating system, we deal with <br>intra- and inter-state rates by mapping the ANI and the DNIS to regions, <br>which in turn have prefix lists associated with them. If the regions <br>match, it's an intrastate call. If they don't match, it's interstate. <br>If one or both of them cannot be mapped to a region, our system allows <br>you to choose default inter- or intra- treatment in such situations.<br><br>Recently, a customer approached us with a rate deck, from one of their <br>wholesale termination vendors, that had an additional "indeterminate" <br>rate column on it. The rates didn't seem to differ substantially from <br>the intrastate rates (which tend to be higher), but they were different.<br><br>Is this a new trend? Is this something we need to support to be on the <br>ball? Or is this an exotic vendor?<br><br>Thanks,<br><br>-- <br>Alex Balashov - Principal<br>Evariste Systems LLC<br>235 E Ponce de Leon Ave<br>Suite 106<br>Decatur, GA 30030<br>Tel: +1-678-954-0670<br>Fax: +1-404-961-1892<br>Web: <a href="http://www.evaristesys.com/">http://www.evaristesys.com/</a>, <a href="http://www.alexbalashov.com/">http://www.alexbalashov.com/</a><br>_______________________________________________<br>VoiceOps mailing list<br><a href="mailto:VoiceOps@voiceops.org">VoiceOps@voiceops.org</a><br>https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops<br></div>_______________________________________________<br>VoiceOps mailing list<br><a href="mailto:VoiceOps@voiceops.org">VoiceOps@voiceops.org</a><br>https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops<br></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>