<div dir="ltr">I'm going to answer a number of messages at once, because there were quite a few replies (thanks to all of you).<div><br></div><div>NPA-NXX filtering is already being done, and is useless.  So they also employ list scrubbing based on what appears to be old/cached LNP info or dips, and that is also insufficient both legally and practically.  The data sources being used in the industry now do not appear to comply with the law.</div><div><br></div><div>For anyone who is saying that you can't determine a cell phone due to LNP, you are wrong.  Please look up these terms and you will see it's very possible:  LERG, LRN, OCN  As far as cell phones that are turned into "home" service, that's fine, we don't care about false positives.  We just need to make sure that a cell number is never dialed by mistake.  And the law allows a 15 day grace period from porting.</div><div><br></div><div>On the "guarantee" that isn't something we'd provide, what I mean was simply a data source that is always accurate.  Such as LRN-LERG testing for every call.  The customer will accept ultimate responsibility.</div><div><br></div><div>Some people recommended third-party services both on and off the list.  The one concern there is again, accuracy.  If the list scrubbers can't get it right...then any third party is suspect.  Are they using cached data?  Or acquiring data from dubious sources?  I don't know.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 2:31 PM Glen Gerhard <<a href="mailto:ggerhard@sansay.com">ggerhard@sansay.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
  
    
  
  <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    <font size="+1">Carlos,<br>
      <br>
      you can get a list of all NPA-NXXs that are used by cell carrier
      and use that as a starting point.  Then add to that the list of
      LRNs used by call carriers which may or may not be included in the
      first list.<br>
      <br>
      Then you need to dip your traffic and compare the DNIS/LRN to the
      combined list.  If the number is ported the LRN will match the
      list.  If the number is not ported and is cellular it will be in
      the list of NPA-NXX.  If not cellular it won't match the list.<br>
      <br>
      Either way if there is a match to the list then you can reject the
      call for that customer.  (I believe you are a Sansay customer so
      you can set up a route table with the combined list and then use
      it as the primary route table for those customers and then link to
      normal tables.  I can have our support team put together the list
      of current NPA-NXX but you'll need a LERG6 subscription to keep it
      current).<br>
      <br>
      Good luck,<br>
      <br>
      ~Glen<br>
      <br>
      PS this message is not copyrighted nor confidential ;-)<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
    </font></div><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><br>
    <div>On 8/18/2015 2:14 PM, Erik Flournoy
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">Derek, 
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Is actually right. Legislation that blocks a company from
          auto dialing a number based on it being a cell phone or
          landline is extremely difficult to prosecute. Straight talk
          has a home service that essentially uses a wireless carrier
          backbone. I can pickup the base plug it in at my neighbors
          house or better yet put it in my car on a power inverter and
          wah lah my home phone is what it truly is a cell phone with a
          110-220v power supply.  Number Portability would make wireline
          and wireless number location nearly impossible. Manual dialing
          would be the only way to prevent an auto dialer issue. </div>
      </div>
      <div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
        <div>
          <div>
            <div dir="ltr">
              <div>
                <div dir="ltr">Erik Flournoy
                  <div>808-426-4527<br>
                    301-218-7325
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    <div><span>CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE<br>
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                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
        <br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 11:00 AM, Derek
          Andrew <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:Derek.Andrew@usask.ca" target="_blank">Derek.Andrew@usask.ca</a>></span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div dir="ltr">Isn't it impossible to decide if a number is
              a cell phone or a land line because of local number
              portability?<br>
              <br>
              <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                <div class="gmail_quote"><span>On Tue, Aug 18,
                    2015 at 2:34 PM, Matthew Crocker <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:matthew@corp.crocker.com" target="_blank"><a href="mailto:matthew@corp.crocker.com" target="_blank">matthew@corp.crocker.com</a></a>></span>
                    wrote:<br>
                  </span>
                  <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                    <div style="word-wrap:break-word"><span>
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                        <div>Depending on your switch you should be able
                          to build a profile for the customer and reject
                          calls going to cell phone LRN providers.  </div>
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                        Personally, I wouldn’t take on the liability of
                        guaranteeing their auto-dialer only calls
                        landlines.   You would end up being sued if you
                        make a mistake.  IMHO, let them manually dial or
                        find a list scrubbing company that actually
                        works.<br>
                        <div>
                          <div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word"><br>
                            —</div>
                          <div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word"><br>
                          </div>
                          <div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word">Matthew
                            Crocker<br>
                            President - Crocker Communications, Inc.<br>
                            Managing Partner -
                            Crocker Telecommunications, LLC<br>
                            E: <a href="mailto:matthew@corp.crocker.com" target="_blank">matthew@corp.crocker.com</a><br>
                            E: <a href="mailto:matthew@crocker.com" target="_blank">matthew@crocker.com</a><br>
                            <br>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                        <br>
                      </span>
                      <div>
                        <blockquote type="cite"><span>
                            <div>
                              <div>
                                <div>On Aug 18, 2015, at 4:30 PM, Carlos
                                  Alvarez <<a href="mailto:caalvarez@gmail.com" target="_blank">caalvarez@gmail.com</a>>
                                  wrote:</div>
                                <br>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </span>
                          <div>
                            <div>
                              <div>
                                <div>
                                  <div>
                                    <div dir="ltr">I have a customer in
                                      market research who is legally
                                      required to manually dial calls to
                                      cell phones.  Right now they are
                                      considering abandoning all of
                                      their auto/predictive dialer
                                      software and going to manual dial
                                      for everything, because the
                                      list-scrubbing services have been
                                      shown to be inaccurate.  There are
                                      extreme penalties for auto-dialing
                                      a cell phone, and "best effort" is
                                      NOT a defense to this, at all. 
                                      For example, Gallup just settle a
                                      claim for $12M.
                                      <div><br>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>So they need a totally
                                        accurate way to prevent a cell
                                        phone call from originating from
                                        their dialer.  The only thing I
                                        can think of is some sort of LRN
                                        dip + LRN-to-carrier-type
                                        response.  One of their people
                                        talked to Neustar, but didn't
                                        get great answers because he
                                        doesn't really understand
                                        telephony.  Before I get in
                                        touch with Neustar, I thought
                                        I'd see if people here have some
                                        ideas.</div>
                                      <div><br>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>If you provide a commercial
                                        product for this, please feel
                                        free to tell me so on or off
                                        list, the customer is willing to
                                        pay for the service and we're
                                        open to all options.  I don't
                                        have a budget number yet but
                                        manual dialing is going to cost
                                        them quite a bit for some types
                                        of studies.</div>
                                      <div><br>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                            <span>
_______________________________________________<br>
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                            </span></div>
                        </blockquote>
                      </div>
                      <br>
                      <span><font color="#888888">
                        </font></span></div>
                    <span><font color="#888888">
                      </font></span></blockquote>
                </div>
                <span><font color="#888888"><br>
                    <br clear="all">
                    <br>
                    -- <br>
                    <div>
                      <div dir="ltr">
                        <div>
                          <div dir="ltr">Copyright 2015 Derek Andrew
                            (excluding quotations)<br>
                            <br>
                            University of Saskatchewan<br>
                            <br>
                            Typed but not read.<br>
                            <br>
                            <img src="http://homepage.usask.ca/dfa878/uofs.gif" height="15" width="200"><br>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </font></span></div>
            </div>
            <br>
            _______________________________________________<br>
            VoiceOps mailing list<br>
            <a href="mailto:VoiceOps@voiceops.org" target="_blank">VoiceOps@voiceops.org</a><br>
            <a href="https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops</a><br>
            <br>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre>_______________________________________________
VoiceOps mailing list
<a href="mailto:VoiceOps@voiceops.org" target="_blank">VoiceOps@voiceops.org</a>
<a href="https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops" target="_blank">https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </div>

_______________________________________________<br>
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</blockquote></div>