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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Exactly that. The idea is collateral
pain for misbehavior. Or attorneys general knocking on doors
wondering why they're allowing robocalls through their network.
Ideally both.<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/2/20 3:06 PM, Alex Balashov wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:B8F15877-95D5-4227-9A6D-7D6B44D0AEA5@evaristesys.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
That’s what I thought, thank you for clarifying. I was just
confused because of the language in Paul’s previous explanation—no
fault of his.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But in the bottom of the barrel, it will leave some folks
with a conundrum about what to do when XYZTelecom sends their
good conversational traffic through their peer A, and their
crappier traffic through their peer B. But I suppose that is the
very dilemma that this technique is meant to force.<br>
<div><br>
<div dir="ltr">—
<div>Sent from mobile, with due apologies for brevity and
errors.</div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On Sep 2, 2020, at 3:01 PM, Mark
Lindsey <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lindsey@e-c-group.com"><lindsey@e-c-group.com></a> wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">SHAKEN doesn't record the chain (like you'd
see with Via headers, for example) of Intermediate
Providers who handle the call. There's only one Identity
header and it is to be passed unchanged from the origin
point to the terminating Voice Service Provider.
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">When the Identity header with PASSporT
arrives at the final Voice Service Provider, that
recipient can determine who created the PASSporT and
then make judgments. For example, there has been a lot
of discussion in FCC filings about "reputation" of
service providers. Perhaps you could subscribe to a
Reputation database to determine what to do with the
calls.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">For example, "This call got an A level
attestation from XYZTelecom, but XYZTelecom has a 5%
score in the reputation database, so I'm going to treat
it as if this call is likely a nuisance call."<br
class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="">
<div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0,
0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing:
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
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0px; text-decoration: none; word-wrap:
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
<div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0,
0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing:
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
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-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none; word-wrap:
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
<div dir="auto" class="" style="caret-color:
rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px;
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text-decoration: none; word-wrap:
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
line-break: after-white-space;">
<div class="" style="letter-spacing:
normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break:
after-white-space;">
<div class="" style="word-wrap:
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
line-break: after-white-space;">
<div style="font-variant-caps: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">
<div class=""><font class=""><span
class="" style="color: rgb(0,
68, 121); font-size: 9px;
font-family: Helvetica;
font-style: normal;
font-weight: normal;"><font
class="" style="line-height:
normal;" face="Arial Black"><b
class="">Mark R Lindsey,
SMTS</b></font></span><b
class="" style="font-size:
9px; font-family: "Arial
Black"; font-style:
normal; font-weight: normal;"><span
class="" style="font-size:
13px;"><font class=""
color="#794800"> <span
class=""
style="font-size: 16px;">|</span> </font></span></b><b
class="" style="color: rgb(0,
68, 121); font-size: 9px;
font-family: "Arial
Black"; font-style:
normal; font-weight: normal;">+1-229-316-0013</b><font
class="" color="#794800"><b
class="" style="font-size:
9px; font-family:
"Arial Black";
font-style: normal;
font-weight: normal;"><span
class="" style="font-size:
13px;"> </span></b><b
class="" style="font-size:
9px; font-family:
"Arial Black";
font-style: normal;
font-weight: normal;"><span
class="" style="font-size:
13px;"><span class=""
style="font-size: 16px;">|</span></span></b><b
class="" style="font-size:
9px; font-family:
"Arial Black";
font-style: normal;
font-weight: normal;"><span
class="" style="font-size:
13px;"> </span></b></font><b
class="" style="font-size:
9px; font-family: "Arial
Black"; font-style:
normal; font-weight: normal;"><font
class="" color="#004479"><a
href="mailto:mark@ecg.co"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">mark@ecg.co</a></font><span
class="" style="font-size:
13px;"><font class=""
color="#794800"> </font></span></b><b
class="" style="font-size:
9px; font-family: "Arial
Black"; font-style:
normal; font-weight: normal;"><span
class="" style="font-size:
13px;"><span class=""
style="font-size: 16px;"><font
class="" color="#794800">|</font></span></span></b><font
class="" face="Arial Black"><span
class="" style="font-style:
normal; font-size: 9px;"><b
class=""><font class=""
color="#794800"> </font><font
style="color: rgb(0, 68,
121);" class=""
color="#004479"><a
href="https://ecg.co/lindsey/"
class="" style="color:
rgb(0, 68, 121);"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://ecg.co/lindsey/</a></font></b></span></font></font></div>
<div class=""><font class=""><font
class="" face="Arial Black"><span
class="" style="font-style:
normal; font-size: 9px;"><b
class=""><br class="">
</b></span></font></font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<div><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Sep 2, 2020, at 2:52 PM, Alex
Balashov <<a
href="mailto:abalashov@evaristesys.com"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">abalashov@evaristesys.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div dir="auto" class="">Thank you, that’s
very clear and sums it all up!
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">One lingering question: even
without providing a fully attestable
chain of custody, if the call took a
route A -> B -> C, are signatures
cumulative such that I could block calls
attested by B coming through C? Or am I
constrained to blocking a certain level
of attestation only through the
last/proximate peering hop (C) that
directly touches me?
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I suppose success is going
to come down to the on-the-ground
realities, political viability, etc of
taking that “block attested calls from
carrier X” step.<br class="">
<br class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">—
<div class="">Sent from mobile, with
due apologies for brevity and
errors.</div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">On
Sep 2, 2020, at 2:47 PM, Paul
Timmins <<a
href="mailto:ptimmins@clearrate.com"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">ptimmins@clearrate.com</a>>
wrote:<br class="">
<br class="">
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div id="divtagdefaultwrapper"
style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: Calibri, Helvetica,
sans-serif;" dir="ltr" class="">
<p class="">The solution is that
you sign your calls with your
certificate. Carriers aren't
doing LNP dips to verify the
number is really yours,
they're trusting your
attestation (A: yes, the
caller id is verified, B: it
comes from our customer, but
not verified, C: "this touched
our switches, good luck with
it"). If you attest total
nonsense as A, or send tons of
nonsense in general, people
start blocking calls you sign.</p>
<p class=""><br class="">
</p>
<p class="">It really verifies
who is sending the call, and
what that company says the
call is verified, not a full
chain of custody of the number
back to the NANPA/PA. Could
you attest A a call from "0"
or "911", or "999-999-9999"?
Yes, you could. It'd work for
a while, til someone said
"Wow, Alex's SPID is signing
tons of bullshit. Let's block
attested calls from his SPID"</p>
<p class=""><br class="">
</p>
<p class="">-Paul<br class="">
</p>
<br class="">
<br class="">
<div style="" class="">
<hr tabindex="-1"
style="display:inline-block;
width:98%" class="">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg"
dir="ltr" class=""><font
style="font-size:11pt"
class="" face="Calibri,
sans-serif"><b class="">From:</b>
VoiceOps <<a
href="mailto:voiceops-bounces@voiceops.org"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">voiceops-bounces@voiceops.org</a>>
on behalf of Alex Balashov
<<a
href="mailto:abalashov@evaristesys.com"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">abalashov@evaristesys.com</a>><br
class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b>
Wednesday, September 2,
2020 2:42 PM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b>
VoiceOps<br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b>
Re: [VoiceOps] Outsourcing
STIR/SHAKEN Setup</font>
<div class=""> </div>
</div>
<div class="">LCR or no LCR,
using a termination vendor
that is different to one’s
origination vendor for a
given CID is more normal
than not in VoIP. I would
guess it’s the default
wholesale use-case.
Origination and termination
are very different business
models with radically
different economics.
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I’m not clear
on what the official
STIR/SHAKEN solution to
this is. I assume it’s
delegated certificates as
Jared suggested.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">—
<div class="">Sent from
mobile, with due
apologies for brevity
and errors.</div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" class=""><br
class="">
<blockquote type="cite"
class="">On Sep 2,
2020, at 2:39 PM,
Carlos Alvarez <<a
href="mailto:caalvarez@gmail.com" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">caalvarez@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br class="">
<br class="">
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div dir="ltr"
class="">If I
understand
correctly, no as
long as your
providers are all
supporting this.
What I think you
mean is that you get
origination/DIDs
from say Bandwidth,
and you use LCR to
route calls to
whoever is
cheapest? There are
ways to work with
that challenge as
long as your
carriers are ready
to do so.</div>
<br class="">
<div
class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr"
class="gmail_attr">On
Wed, Sep 2, 2020
at 11:28 AM Jared
Geiger <<a
href="mailto:jared@compuwizz.net"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">jared@compuwizz.net</a>>
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px
0px 0px 0.8ex;
border-left:1px
solid
rgb(204,204,204);
padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr"
class="">If we
purchase our
numbers through
wholesalers,
would we need
delegated
certificates if
we are sending
an outbound call
through a vendor
that is not the
wholesaler we
got the number
from?</div>
<br class="">
<div
class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr"
class="gmail_attr">On
Wed, Sep 2,
2020 at 7:22
AM Dave Frigen
<<a
href="mailto:dfrigen@wabash.net"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">dfrigen@wabash.net</a>>
wrote:<br
class="">
</div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);
padding-left:1ex">
There is a
STIR-SHAKEN
process of
registering
and testing
with the
Policy<br
class="">
Administrator
(PA) as a
certified
Service
Provider (SP)
before you can<br
class="">
purchase
SHAKEN token
certificates
from a
Certificate
Authority (CA)
and<br
class="">
begin to
engage in
using the
technology.
This is not a
walk in the
park.<br
class="">
Transnexus is
one of two
public CA's in
the U.S.
today. They
are experts on<br
class="">
the subject
and can help
you through
both
processes. In
order to get
the<br
class="">
best call
attestation
you must prove
to the PA and
CA that you
are a bono<br
class="">
fide service
provider and
not a
bad-acting
enterprise on
a network that<br
class="">
deserves
lesser
attestation
levels. <br
class="">
<br class="">
One of the
registration
requirements
is a SP 's
access to
valid national<br
class="">
phone number
pools. This
has been very
confusing for
some resale
providers<br
class="">
that purchase
and use
numbers from
wholesalers
only. If your
organization<br
class="">
does not have
it's own
numbering
resources, you
can register
using your<br
class="">
wholesale
provider's
numbering pool
data. Don't
assume you
have to
register<br
class="">
with the FCC
and possess
your own pool
of numbers to
become a
registered<br
class="">
SHAKEN SP.<br
class="">
<br class="">
SHAKEN ROBO
call
mitigation is
a new
frontier, and
obtaining the
best<br
class="">
attestation
level possible
for a SP is
essential to
the SP and the
SHAKEN<br
class="">
ecosystem.
Register and
test for the
best
attestation
level
possible.<br
class="">
Transnexus is
a seasoned
expert on the
subject and a
U.S.
registered CA
with<br
class="">
the PA. <br
class="">
<br class="">
Dave<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
-----Original
Message-----<br
class="">
From: VoiceOps
<<a
href="mailto:voiceops-bounces@voiceops.org"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">voiceops-bounces@voiceops.org</a>>
On Behalf Of
Mary Lou Carey<br
class="">
Sent: Tuesday,
September 1,
2020 5:36 PM<br
class="">
To: Dovid
Bender <<a
href="mailto:dovid@telecurve.com" target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">dovid@telecurve.com</a>><br
class="">
Cc: <a
href="http://Voiceops.org"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">Voiceops.org</a>
<<a
href="mailto:voiceops@voiceops.org"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">voiceops@voiceops.org</a>><br
class="">
Subject: Re:
[VoiceOps]
Outsourcing
STIR/SHAKEN
Setup<br
class="">
<br class="">
I'm a Carrier
Consultant
who's been
helping CLEC,
IXC, Paging,
Wireless and<br
class="">
VOIP carriers
install and
maintain their
PSTN networks
for the the
last 20<br
class="">
years. I can
help clients
get their FCC
Certification
to become a<br
class="">
STIR/SHAKEN
carrier as
well as
Numbering
Resources,
NPAC / LSR
training, etc<br
class="">
(if you need
those pieces).
Once my
clients get
their
certification,
I refer<br
class="">
them to
TransNexus.
Jim and his
team can help
you with the
process of<br
class="">
turning your
STIR/SHAKEN
services up.<br
class="">
<br class="">
MARY LOU CAREY<br
class="">
BackUP Telecom
Consulting<br
class="">
Office:
615-791-9969<br
class="">
Cell:
615-796-1111<br
class="">
<br class="">
On 2020-08-31
05:37 AM,
Dovid Bender
wrote:<br
class="">
> Hi,<br
class="">
> <br
class="">
> Does
anyone have a
recommendation
for a company
that get us
everything <br
class="">
> needed
for
STIR/SHAKEN
setup? By
setup I mean
helping us
file to get a
<br class="">
> cert etc.
From the small
research I
have done
there is a lot
of <br
class="">
>
fragmented
information
out there and
it would be
easier for us
to pay <br
class="">
> someone
else to do
this then
invest our own
time to take
care of this.<br
class="">
> <br
class="">
> TIA.<br
class="">
> <br
class="">
> Regards,<br
class="">
> <br
class="">
> Dovid<br
class="">
>
_______________________________________________<br
class="">
> VoiceOps
mailing list<br
class="">
> <a
href="mailto:VoiceOps@voiceops.org"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">VoiceOps@voiceops.org</a><br
class="">
> <a
href="https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">
https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops</a><br class="">
_______________________________________________<br class="">
VoiceOps
mailing list<br
class="">
<a
href="mailto:VoiceOps@voiceops.org"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">VoiceOps@voiceops.org</a><br
class="">
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href="https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops</a><br
class="">
<br class="">
_______________________________________________<br class="">
VoiceOps
mailing list<br
class="">
<a
href="mailto:VoiceOps@voiceops.org"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">VoiceOps@voiceops.org</a><br
class="">
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href="https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops</a><br
class="">
</blockquote>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br class="">
VoiceOps mailing
list<br class="">
<a
href="mailto:VoiceOps@voiceops.org"
target="_blank"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">VoiceOps@voiceops.org</a><br
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rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank"
class=""
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class="">
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</div>
<span class="">_______________________________________________</span><br
class="">
<span class="">VoiceOps
mailing list</span><br
class="">
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href="mailto:VoiceOps@voiceops.org"
class=""
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href="https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops"
class=""
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</blockquote>
</div>
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</div>
_______________________________________________<br class="">
VoiceOps mailing list<br class="">
<a href="mailto:VoiceOps@voiceops.org"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">VoiceOps@voiceops.org</a><br
class="">
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<br class="">
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><font class=""><span
class="" style="color: rgb(0, 68, 121);
font-size: 9px; font-family: Helvetica;"><font
class="" style="line-height: normal;"
face="Arial Black"><b class="">Mark R
Lindsey, SMTS</b></font></span><span
class="" style="font-size: 9px; font-family:
"Arial Black";"><span class=""
style="font-size: 13px;"><font class=""
color="#794800"> <span class=""
style="font-size: 16px;">|</span> </font></span></span><span
class="" style="color: rgb(0, 68, 121);
font-size: 9px; font-family: "Arial
Black";">+1-229-316-0013</span><font
class="" color="#794800"><span class=""
style="font-size: 9px; font-family:
"Arial Black";"><span class=""
style="font-size: 13px;"> </span></span><span
class="" style="font-size: 9px; font-family:
"Arial Black";"><span class=""
style="font-size: 13px;"><span class=""
style="font-size: 16px;">|</span></span></span><span
class="" style="font-size: 9px; font-family:
"Arial Black";"><span class=""
style="font-size: 13px;"> </span></span></font><span
class="" style="font-size: 9px; font-family:
"Arial Black";"><font class=""
color="#004479"><a href="mailto:mark@ecg.co"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">mark@ecg.co</a></font><span
class="" style="font-size: 13px;"><font
class="" color="#794800"> </font></span></span><span
class="" style="font-size: 9px; font-family:
"Arial Black";"><span class=""
style="font-size: 13px;"><span class=""
style="font-size: 16px;"><font class=""
color="#794800">|</font></span></span></span><font
class="" face="Arial Black"><span class=""
style="font-size: 9px;"><b class=""><font
class="" color="#794800"> </font><font
style="color: rgb(0, 68, 121);" class=""
color="#004479"><a
href="https://ecg.co/lindsey/"
class="" style="color: rgb(0, 68,
121);" moz-do-not-send="true">https://ecg.co/lindsey/</a></font></b></span></font></font></div>
</div>
<div class=""><font class=""><font class=""
face="Arial Black"><span class=""
style="font-size: 9px;"><b class=""><br
class="">
</b></span></font></font></div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
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<br>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
VoiceOps mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:VoiceOps@voiceops.org">VoiceOps@voiceops.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops">https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops</a>
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