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--></style></head><body lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="word-wrap:break-word"><div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">Agreed that the threat of carrier blocking should be a serious deterrent but blocking based on the SHAKEN root cert or SPID isn’t the only method. There is an expectation of easy/instant traceback too, which will hopefully generate onerous support costs for the offending carrier(s) before a BFH is required.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">I think of caller verification and spam/fraud/robocall mitigation as two potentially related but separate tools. If my network receives a call that is SHAKEN-verified but has a very high spam/fraud/robocall score, it’s blocked (SIP 608 response). The FCC has provided legal “safe harbor” to block such calls without the potential threat of liability, as long as the required processes are in-place to remove erroneous blocking.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">-Joel</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"> </span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> VoiceOps <<a href="mailto:voiceops-bounces@voiceops.org">voiceops-bounces@voiceops.org</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul Timmins<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 16, 2021 10:45 AM<br><b>To:</b> Nick Olsen <<a href="mailto:nick@141networks.com">nick@141networks.com</a>>; Karl Douthit <<a href="mailto:karl@piratel.com">karl@piratel.com</a>><br><b>Cc:</b> Voiceops.org <<a href="mailto:voiceops@voiceops.org">voiceops@voiceops.org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [VoiceOps] Fake Voicemail Anti-Robocall Tactics</p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><div id="divtagdefaultwrapper"><p><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">I expect that people will attest spam. But we're allowed to block carriers by spid if we want if we start getting garbage. The effective telecom death penalty that'd create (along with the liability) will be an interesting enforcement mechanism.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> </span></p><div><div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><hr size="2" width="98%" align="center"></span></div><div id="divRplyFwdMsg"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:black">From:</span></b><span style="color:black"> VoiceOps <<a href="mailto:voiceops-bounces@voiceops.org">voiceops-bounces@voiceops.org</a>> on behalf of Nick Olsen <<a href="mailto:nick@141networks.com">nick@141networks.com</a>><br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 16, 2021 1:27 PM<br><b>To:</b> Karl Douthit<br><b>Cc:</b> Voiceops.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [VoiceOps] Fake Voicemail Anti-Robocall Tactics</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> </span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> </span></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">My faith in STIR/SHAKEN has all but collapsed. I think we're just going to end up in a situation where even the SPAM is attested. At least having a breadcrumb to follow might help. </span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Given the current state of SS. I won't hold my breath.</span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> </span></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 12:44 PM Karl Douthit <<a href="mailto:karl@piratel.com">karl@piratel.com</a>> wrote:</span></p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Stir will only help if carriers actually pass or allow tokens. Still waiting on several tier 1 carriers to take them.</span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> </span></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 9:35 AM Glen Gerhard <<a href="mailto:glen@cognexus.net" target="_blank">glen@cognexus.net</a>> wrote:</span></p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">Hopefully Stir/Shaken will make this a moot point. Calvin, are you saying that a 608 is the recommended response for a call that is being rejected due to S/S attestation or CVT reasons?<br><br>~Glen</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">On 2/16/2021 8:19 AM, Calvin Ellison wrote:</span></p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Today we received a notice from one of our underlying carriers that included the following statement: </span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> </span></p></div><div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8.0pt;line-height:11.75pt"><span style="color:black">* If a customer spoofs an ANI that they do not own, the clec's can forward to call to a voiceless Voicemail which appears to be FAS.</span></p></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Is there any legal device that actually supports this practice? I'm looking for a specific statute, FCC rule, precedent in a judicial ruling, or the like.</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">The FCC has ruled that the SIP 608 response code is to be used for signaling when a call is rejected. I doubt the FCC or FTC has ruled that terminating carriers are permitted to cause loss of trust and revenue between upstream intermediate and originating carriers.</span></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Regards, </span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> </span></p></div><div><p><strong><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Calvin Ellison</span></strong><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"><br>Systems Architect<br><a href="mailto:calvin.ellison@voxox.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:#0e7bae;text-decoration:none">calvin.ellison@voxox.com</span></a><br>+1 (213) 285-0555<br><br>-----------------------------------------------<br><strong><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><a href="http://www.voxox.com/" target="_blank"><span style="color:#0e7bae;text-decoration:none">voxox.com</span></a> </span></strong><br>5825 Oberlin Drive, Suite 5<br>San Diego, CA 92121</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><img border="0" width="186" height="45" style="width:1.9398in;height:.4675in" id="_x0000_i1026" src="http://cdn.voxox.com/img/voxox-logo.png" alt="Voxox"></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><br><br></span></p><pre><span style="color:black">_______________________________________________</span></pre><pre><span style="color:black">VoiceOps mailing list</span></pre><pre><span style="color:black"><a href="mailto:VoiceOps@voiceops.org" 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style="font-size:9.5pt;color:black"></span></p><p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial Rounded MT Bold",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><a href="tel:%28562%29%20257-3590" target="_blank"><span style="color:#1155cc">(562) 257-3590</span></a> (Desk)</span><span style="font-size:9.5pt;color:black"></span></p><p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial Rounded MT Bold",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><a href="tel:%28562%29%20827-0757" target="_blank"><span style="color:#1155cc">(562) 824-0757</span></a> (Mobile)</span><span style="font-size:9.5pt;color:black"></span></p><p><u><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial Rounded MT Bold",sans-serif;color:#0070c0"><a href="http://www.piratel.com/" target="_blank"><span style="color:#1155cc">www.piratel.com</span></a></span></u><span style="font-size:9.5pt;color:black"></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">_______________________________________________<br>VoiceOps mailing list<br><a href="mailto:VoiceOps@voiceops.org" target="_blank">VoiceOps@voiceops.org</a><br><a href="https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops" target="_blank">https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops</a></span></p></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>