[c-nsp] Leaked Video or Not (Linux and Cisco for internal Sales folks)

Fri Jun 22 10:13:10 EDT 2018

The NPU/ASIC vendors are not allowing packets to be pushed in Linux,
someone needs to work with them to do that.

What exactly is the problem here ? I guess we can agree that Cisco is a
company that is out there to make money, others are too but they have a
less capitalistic approach to it, more friendly to the community.

You are right about one question, who will pay for packets to flow through
the kernel ?

On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 7:00 AM, Tails Pipes <tailsnpipes at gmail.com> wrote:

> Mojatau, Big switch, cumulus, arista and even juniper are trying to move
> networking to a better place, but not cisco. they do contribute to it,
> there is xdp, ebpf, quagga, vrfs in linux...etc < do you want to deny those
> ? just because you have a ccie and you are comfortable being a cisco
> network guy, well you dont live alone in the world, others also need to be
> able to run networks without having to work on it for 10 years.
>
> What do you mean that no one is pushing packets in linux ? Isnt that the
> point of all the linux networking ? are you saying that the vendors
> mentioned are closing their work ? can you give an educated opinion who
> exactly is not allowing packets to be pushed in linux ? is it Linus
> trovalds and the NetDev folks or is it the community of people like you
> that are so comfortable in their own skin that they dont allow innovation
> to take course.
>
> Linux and BSD are both operating systems that are well documented and many
> people can understand and work with but if you are so comfortable with IOS
> variants, that doesnt mean that every one is....can i operate networks
> without having years of experience and implicitly forced support by cisco,
> I am sick of having to learn all the cisco specific terms to all sorts of
> different boxes and technologies, all their tools and super expensive AS
> engagements, but thats not what this post is about. its about how a company
> is making use of free software and refusing to allow it to flourish, the
> microsoft of networking is cisco.
>
> https://blogs.cisco.com/news/myth-busting-white-box-
> switches-are-no-bargain
>
> This is about a company that smiles in my face, telling me that Linux is
> bad for me and they are using it in all their products, in that video, the
> speaker says we can leverage all the linux work for free.
>
> Is Cisco working on XDP ? https://netdevconf.org/0x12/schedule.html I dont
> see Cisco's name here but others are.
>
> can you easily answer this question ? why packets are not pushed in linux ?
> is it because of big switch, cumulus, pica8 ?
>
> can you push packets in linux without writing code to do that ? who is
> writing that code ?
>
> this is supposedly a community effort, something that older generations
> dont understand.
>
> On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 1:27 AM, Saku Ytti <saku at ytti.fi> wrote:
>
> > Hey Tails Pipes,
> >
> > What do you mean by 'not making sense with the defense against open
> > source'?
> >
> > All their operating systems run linux, IOS-XE, IOS-XR, NXOS and more.
> >
> > And no one is (well at least shouldn't be) surprised that the obvious
> > motivation that drives linux use, is that you get booting OS, for
> > free, which actually works. Almost no vendor no longer maintains their
> > own booting OS. Huawei, Juniper, Cisco, Arista all boot Linux. Nokia
> > is one of the few who still write their own booting OS (forked off
> > vxworks years ago), which also means they can't bring easily and
> > cheaply new control-plane HW, and possible reason why they run Cavium
> > control-plane is because they've not written code to boot XEON.
> >
> > I see no reason why the video would be taken down, I didn't watch it
> > in its entirety as I'm not curious about Linux primer at this time,
> > but the sections you highlighted are in no way controversial.
> >
> > I'm unsure what argument you're trying to make about Cisco, open
> > source or Cumulus. Cumulus is, in my mind, no special vendor. Just
> > another vendor buying COTS chips and writing OS on them, like many
> > others. I'm not saying it's bad thing, I'm just saying they're in no
> > way disruptive in my mind. They're not doing packet pushing in Linux,
> > no one is. It's just booting OS, and OS to configure the
> > forwarding-plane.
> > Now some are looking anxiously at XEON for packet pushing, but even in
> > that case, you're not actually using Linux to push packets, granted
> > you're using open source, DPDK or equivalent, but even in that case,
> > the cost for PPS from INTC XEON is far worse than it is from BRCM. And
> > of course neither ITNC nor BRCM are in any meaningful way more 'open'.
> >
> > What would be disruptive is someone openly publishing their ASIC/NPU
> > specs and P4 compiler, so that we use vanillla linux kernel to drive
> > the forwarding-plane.
> >
> > On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 at 03:50, Tails Pipes <tailsnpipes at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > I went to CiscoLive last week, and i understood that they are
> definitely
> > > not making sense with the defense against open source and the direction
> > of
> > > LBN (Linux Based Networking) However, they still like to use Linux and
> > make
> > > money out of it. (minute 09:13), complete and utter bullish hypocrisy.
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyC_T-u8Wsw
> > >
> > > Not sure if this is a leaked video or not, but i am kind of surprised
> > that
> > > this company is openly admitting these kind of ideas.
> > >
> > > What really ticked me to share this is when the executive in the video
> > > (Chuck Duffy) is openly admitting the competitive pressure, and how IOS
> > is
> > > inferior to Linux (minute 01:07), the way he spoke about IOS was
> > inferring
> > > that its classic or legacy and thats why its picked up in all their
> > > products.
> > >
> > > What i wasnt able to comprehend at all is why he mentioned Big switch
> and
> > > cumulus on minute 02:50, is this like a slip of truth or a real
> defining
> > > moment of a vendor’s life saying that  open stuff is a disruptive
> > > architecture ?
> > >
> > > Is Cisco moving to. subscription model because of Linux ? Is it that
> > > difficult to change Cisco to go Linux all the way ?
> > >
> > > ps. : it will probably be taken down soon.
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > > https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >   ++ytti
> >
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