[c-nsp] Counterfeit gear (was "service unsupported-linecard")

[Eric Van Tol]

> Define 'reputable' and 'secondary' market reseller.   IOS licensing is an
> issue here one way or the other, and 'recertifying' hardware of unknown
> origin can actually happen when there's service to be attached to it.

Maybe I used the wrong term by saying 'recertify'.  Yes, equipment can be recertified through Cisco if you want it under contract.  What I should say is "certified as genuine" Cisco gear.  A reputable secondary market reseller is one that performs due diligence to acquire used equipment and certifies that equipment through whatever means available to them to ensure that is 100% Cisco equipment.  This would be much simpler if Cisco established a business relationship with these types of resellers.  Cisco could define the processes themselves to ensure the resellers are "reputable".  Whether they take a cut of the profit or not would be up to them, but I imagine that they would.  :-)

>Please bear in mind, that while I don't know which resellers been
>'flat-out ignored', and what actually you mean by that, it doesn't
>permit them to break the law (if they do break it of course). Cisco
>channel program is quite simple, and you can't be ignored if you
>follow the rules. Simple as that, there's no hidden magic there.

Are there provisions in the channel program for purchasing used gear as a reseller, identifying that gear as genuine, and reselling it?  It's my understanding that the only "authorized" way to purchase used gear is through Cisco's Certified Refurbished Equipment program.  Please correct me if I am wrong.

The Cisco blog references an article in CRN, in which at least one 'secondary reseller' is quoted:

"Cisco won't help," said Mike Sheldon, president and CEO of Network Hardware Resale, which provides preowned, used and refurbished Cisco, Juniper, Extreme and Redback products. "They won't engage, and they won't help identify the product. We've offered to share the knowledge we have with them about what we see, and also who we see offering counterfeit products. All we ask is that they help us identify the most common products. And they refuse. We're essentially on our own."

I'm not advocating anything illegal here, nor am I saying that Cisco doesn't have a right to protect its brand name.  The bottom line is that the used market is here - no one anyone can do is going to stop it.  Rather than work against it, why not find ways to use it to their advantage?  By not reaching out to some of these resellers, the resellers are left to their own devices to figure out what is genuine and what is not.  This only hurts the end user, and sometimes Cisco, if they end up having to support it.  It would make sense to me to just stop the flow of gear where it makes most sense - at the reseller, by working with them.

-evt

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Łukasz Bromirski [mailto:lukasz at bromirski.net] 
> Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 10:21 AM
> To: Eric Van Tol
> Cc: cisco-nsp at puck.nether.net
> Subject: Re: [c-nsp] Counterfeit gear (was "service 
> unsupported-linecard")
> 
> Eric Van Tol wrote:
> 
> > Of course it is.  I imagine that a company like Cisco, 
> which I'm sure
> > suffers the most from counterfeit gear, loses millions every year in
> > support costs alone.  Cisco doesn't just accept the bad 
> parts if they
> > are shipped to them from an RMA.  They have an entire 
> in-house group,
> > which I believe consists of an investigative team that 
> works with local
> > law enforcement, that tracks down where the parts were bought.
> 
> Yes, it's covered under Brand Protection activities:
> 
>   http://www.cisco.com/go/brandprotection/
> 
> > What Cisco *needs* to do is stop ignoring reputable secondary market
> > resellers.  They should work closely with these resellers 
> to "recertify"
> > genuine gear.  They're losing out on a lot of revenue, but 
> it's their
> > own fault - there are resellers out there that have tried 
> to work with
> > Cisco and they've been flat-out ignored.
> 
> Define 'reputable' and 'secondary' market reseller. IOS 
> licensing is an
> issue here one way or the other, and 'recertifying' hardware 
> of unknown
> origin can actually happen when there's service to be attached to it.
> There's also distinction between used, genuine gear sold by companies
> not having any business relationship with Cisco (grey market) and
> gear that's counterfeit, cloned - whatever. It's clearly stated under
> that URL above.
> 
> Please bear in mind, that while I don't know which resellers been
> 'flat-out ignored', and what actually you mean by that, it doesn't
> permit them to break the law (if they do break it of course). Cisco
> channel program is quite simple, and you can't be ignored if you
> follow the rules. Simple as that, there's no hidden magic there.
> 
> There's some additional info here:
> http://blogs.cisco.com/news/2007/08/protecting_against_gray_ma
> rket.html
> 
> -- 
> "Don't expect me to cry for all the     |               
> Łukasz Bromirski
>   reasons you had to die" -- Kurt Cobain |    
> http://lukasz.bromirski.net
>