[c-nsp] Certification Ethics

Ziv Leyes zivl at gilat.net
Wed May 13 02:24:31 EDT 2009

You've got me totally wrong, I'm not bitter and I'm not moaning nor growning, just telling what I think about it.
I disagree with the certification world wide business, is that being bitter? Is that to moan?
If you think my opinion doesn't fit here then I'll refrain from doing it again.
If a manager that is looking to hire someone finds me and is really good at "googleing" he may find my "life" certifications, I also have "scouts and reference" I can show :)
Yes, he may find also this "growning" about certifications, well, I didn't say I won't do them, I just say I will avoid it as long as I can. 
But there's something I will NEVER do, is to put my certification "buzz" initials in my signature! :-D

-----Original Message-----
From: cisco-nsp-bounces at puck.nether.net [mailto:cisco-nsp-bounces at puck.nether.net] On Behalf Of Charles Wyble
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 8:10 PM
To: cisco-nsp at puck.nether.net
Subject: Re: [c-nsp] Certification Ethics

Ziv Leyes wrote:
> If we're talking about ethics then I think the whole certification thing is not ethical and unfair,

Life isn't fair. :)

  to classify a person asking 'em for a paper that costs a lot of money 
to not just get but to "maintain" it's merely doing business on people's 

Well. I disagree. I think that the CCIE (flawed though it's takers may 
be) is about the only cert that really means something. If someone has 
taken the test and obtained the number, then you should feel comfortable 
asking them questions about things at that level.

Same thing as if someone has the experience on their resume.

The CCIE and all the studying it entails allows someone entering the 
field to rapidly get up to speed. It's an excellent blueprint.

> I don't remember when the last time a soccer player was asked to show a certification before they pay them millions of dollars/pounds/euros for them to play in the team, they bring them for what they know, not for what they're "certified" to know.

Um. They usually have a pretty good track record at that point. The 
"certification" is done by scouts and references.

> Too bad the whole world gives this scam a hand and everywhere you go, a certification worth more than just experience.

Well then go get a certification. If you have the necessary experience 
then it shouldn't be a problem.

> As long as I can I will remain without any certification. I had a couple in the past I didn't renew and I don't want to have to renew them to be considered "valid" I know what I know and I'm happy my employer pays me for what I do, not for what I'm supposed to know because a paper says it.

You sound pretty bitter. That's unfortunate..... it's usually not a good 
idea to moan and groan on a list with hundreds or thousands of 
subscribers. :) Google is great for hiring managers.

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