[c-nsp] ARP strangeness

[Frank Bulk - iName.com]

The order in which it fails (7609's ARP cache, 7609's MAC address table, and
FTTH gear's forwarding bridge table) has not yet been made clear, because
every since I started capturing state every 2 minutes, a week ago, it hasn't
happened again.

What you're describing should be all true.  My only assumption at this point
in time is that the pre-expiry and expiry ARPs don't make their way to the
FTTH gear, and its forwarding bridge table expires its entries.

Frank

-----Original Message-----
From: Rodney Dunn [mailto:rodunn at cisco.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 6:51 AM
To: frnkblk at iname.com
Cc: cisco-nsp at puck.nether.net
Subject: Re: [c-nsp] ARP strangeness

Frank,

Maybe you could put it in a timeline for me as i think I'm still missing
what exactly is failing. Sorry, a bit slow the last few days.

The 7600 should send a *unicast* arp to every entry in it's arp cache 60
seconds prior to what you have the arp timer set to.
It will then send another just at the arp timer expiring *if* it didn't
get a response to the first one.

So if your arp timer on the 7600 is low enough it should keep L2 mac
forwarding state alive on all transit devices out to the CPE no?

Broadcast is only sent when the L2 mapping isn't known.

Rodney




On 1/10/11 5:27 PM, Frank Bulk wrote:
> Thanks for explaining.
>
> Since the Linksys BEFRS41 does not ARP regularly, even after a DHCP RENEW
> and DHCP DISCOVER, and because the access gear blocks all broadcast
traffic,
> the 7609-S will never (re-)populate its ARP entry.
>
> I'm going to see if the Linksys BEFRS41 has a configurable ARP expiration
> timer.  If so, dropping it to 10 minutes would cause it to unicast ARP for
> the default gateway, which would resolve the issue.
>
> Another possible option, I guess, is to extend the 7609-S ARP expiration
to
> a longer time interval, but if the BEFRS41 is silent for even a second
> longer than the ARP timer, then I'm still stuck.
>
> I should really look at the behavior of other CPE to see how often they
> unicast ARP.
>
> Frank
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rodney Dunn [mailto:rodunn at cisco.com]
> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 1:30 PM
> To: frnkblk at iname.com
> Cc: cisco-nsp at puck.nether.net
> Subject: Re: [c-nsp] ARP strangeness
>
> It only gets updated on getting and ARP packet from the host.
>
> It is not updated based on L3 data level traffic flowing to/from the host.
>
> Rodney
>
>
>
> On 1/10/11 11:43 AM, Frank Bulk wrote:
>> Does the ARP cache get populated, or updated, if the traffic comes into
an
>> L3 interface, or is it only populated upon a successful ARP response?
>>
>> Frank
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: cisco-nsp-bounces at puck.nether.net
>> [mailto:cisco-nsp-bounces at puck.nether.net] On Behalf Of Rodney Dunn
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 7:38 AM
>> To: Jeff Kell
>> Cc: cisco-nsp at puck.nether.net
>> Subject: Re: [c-nsp] ARP strangeness
>>
>> On 1/4/11 11:43 PM, Jeff Kell wrote:
>>> On 1/4/2011 9:01 PM, Rodney Dunn wrote:
>>>> There were some changes to ARP at one point to provide some more
>>>> triggered capability. I don't recall exactly what that was but the
>>>> default behavior for many years was that we send a unicast arp to the
>>>> destination 60 seconds prior to the arp timer set to expire. If we
>>>> don't get a response we send it again when the timer pops and if no
>>>> response we invalidate the ARP entry.
>>>
>>> Umm, that sort of rocks my boat with regard to network monitoring
>>> assumptions...
>>>
>>> We have one of those NMS systems that periodically "reads L2 devices for
>>> mac-address/port mapping" and "reads L3 devices ARP for mac-to-IP
>>> mapping".  Ideally, there should be no missing links (if the MAC is
>>> found, hopefully the ARP/IP is found, and vice-versa).
>>>
>>
>> That still holds true as long as a timer (sam cam ager) didn't pop
>> sooner than your arp refresh timer.
>>
>>> For the default mac-address aging time of 300 seconds, I had this notion
>>> that setting the ARP timeouts to 270 seconds would necessitate the
>>> router ARPing the device (assuming active traffic) prior to the
>>> mac-address aging out, keeping the mac-address table populated.
>>
>> Keep the other timers 60+ seconds out to be safe.
>>
>>>
>>> But if the Cisco L3 behavior is to gratuitously do this for me before
>>> the ARP timeout... that changes things a bit.
>>>
>>> Is this default behavior across all the Cats, or just the 6500/7600?  Is
>>> it supervisor-specific?
>>>
>>
>> Traditionally generic to all of IOS. There may have been some platform
>> specific thing that changed here that I have missed in the last couple
>> of years though.
>>
>> Rodney
>>
>>> Jeff
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