Go Figure!

[Keith Rowland]

Hi Van, and thanks for the reply.  We could have an intensely
interesting dialogue on these topics, but I fear we may be in danger of
taking up too much bandwidth on a forum not designed for philosophical
discussions, so I'll be brief.

I suspect from what you say that we are closer philosphically than would
appear, and your reply comments are well taken, altho I consider
trust-busting the main reason we now have an economy that is fairly well
balanced between prices and wages (at least, more so than other
nations).  After all, if a large entity is allowed to run untramelled,
human greed will take over, and the entity will pay as little as
possible and get as much work as possible out of its employees, with no
heed to the fact that the better paid they are, the more THEY can buy,
thereby enhancing the economy.  There surely must be a balance here
somewhere between the need of the company for profit, and the need of
the worker for pay commensurate with his contribution, wherein both can
benefit each to the other's satisfaction.

And there certainly are whiners among us!  I have short shrift for them.
This is an unfortunate modern day attitude.  But I also have short
shrift for those who have the prevalent modern attitude of "get all you
can while you can" and devil take the social consequences.  It's hard to
sell one's product if there is no one who is able to buy.

And there is certainly nothing wrong with real estate.  I have many
close friends who are heavily into it, and who have made gobs of money
in it.  It just never appealed to me personally.  I made mine by
offering a reasonably priced service to a large number of users, thereby
making it on volume, while at the same time making the buyer happy with
a good price, and me happy with the total take!  Besides, I did it in an
electronic field, which to me was much more fun and more enjoyable than
real estate or some other field of endeavor.  Strictly a personal
preference, and not a prejudice against any other field.

And you're absolutely right that neither those who moan and groan nor
those who advocate the way things are going are going to change it
appreciably.  I believe that large events are driven by imperatives that
are not readily subject to control...something the Soviets finally
discovered when their artificial system collapsed of its own weight.

In any case, I'm glad that those of us alive today have lived in very
interesting times...perhaps the most interesting times in all of
history, even though some of these times have been difficult and
sometimes frustrating.  I just wish I could know how it will all turn
out!

73, Keith





Van Lincoln-wd8aam wrote:
>
> At 08:38 AM 2/27/98 -0500, you wrote:
> >Van:  You refer to "...you low bidders..." as if I were one of them. ==>>
> I'm sorry that sounded derogatory, wasn't meant to be, only a statement of
> ONE high bidder, all the rest are low-bidders.
>
> >Not so.  I was merely commenting on what I see to be a phenomenon that
> >is removing a good deal of the enjoyment==>> this is true!
>  that many hams, most of whom
> >are of modest means,==>>this is very true.  This hobby is one of no money,
> to ton's of money.
>
>  derive from trading older equipment, fixing it up,
> >using it, and so forth.  However, even in the old days, those of modest
> means were free to purchase all they could, and there were items that were
> beyond their range.  It just seem like now, people complain,"geez, joe can
> buy it, why can't i, "  and years ago, instead of wanting, they got a
> better paying job.  now all they do is whine,
> and say, bill, price that lower so I can buy it.  It's a 'frame of
> attitude' today, that didn't exist in the 30's and 40's.
> ' poor ' was accepted as a fact of life then, now everyone feels bad if
> they all can't be equal and have the same things.  (communism is much like
> this mentality)
> >
> >I am certainly no opponent of the capitalist system, however, there is a
> >point at which so-called "free enterprise" becomes greed, and I believe
> >that point is reached when an item is artificially inflated to the point
> >of absurdity.  For example, when an item that cost, say $20 originally,
> >is not old enough to be a true antique, is not really scarce, and is
> >still in widespread use (like the Heath VFO, for instance), sells for
> >nearly $200.00.
> >
> >We must remember that there is also a point at which capitalism becomes
> >economic totalitarianism, where the elitist "laissez faire" ideology ==>>
> a fine line.  We could adopt NIxon's price
>       freezes, e.g. no ham gear can be priced over $200, and you must sell
> that collins 51s1 for $200. !
> pretty dumb in my book to put a ceiling on things, but once again, it's a
> 'fine line'.........
>
> >creates a society (much like our own era of robber barons) where some
> 5%==> (anti-trust legislation sprang up from this thinking)
>
> >of the population owns and controls 95% of the wealth and property...a
> >condition that still exists in many countries (and we all know which
> >ones these are).  Am I wrong in believing that one of the main driving
> >forces involved in the creation of the United States of America was a
> >strong anti-elitist sentiment?
> >
> >Your point about real estate investing is well taken.  That is why I do
> >not invest in real estate.==>> (i do, and it has paid off quite well)
>
>   By the same token, there is not a single
> >piece of old electronic junk (or new electronic junk, for that matter)
> >that I want badly enough to purchase at patently ridiculous prices.  ==>>
> you do NOT purchase at ridiculous prices, but I do, however they are
> ridiculous prices to you, purely market prices to ME.  All in the frame of
> reference.  But I AM a discriminating buyer, only buy things I need or
> want, never something I don't want!
> >
> >In any case, you and I are certainly both free (at least for now)==>>
> THANK GOD!
>  to express our opinions on the matter, and I respect your opinion, even
> >though I don't agree with it.  I somewhat agree with you, but it's more
> WISHING prices were lower, than any expectation that my wishs will change
> anything.  Market supply and demand is driving the prices higher, and the
> demand has been created by the MASS AUDIENCE of the INTERNET.  The ebay
> auction alone has 11 million lookers EVERY week.!  So the weaker buyer,
> looking at the Ham Trader Yellow Sheets keeps seeing pricing steadily
> increasing, quite rapidly as more sellers are seeing the higher prices
> obtainable by better advertising on the internet.  And he moans, and
> groans, about how those sellers are ruining ham radio as he knew it.
>
>   My original comment was neither for or
> >against the auction process--I don't really care how other people spend
> >their money.  My point was that by participating in such activities, the
> >people complaining about it were actively abetting the activity, and
> >that if they wanted to do something about it, there was a way to do it.
> ==>> I was pointing out that realistically, there is NO way to do anything
> about it, just moan and groan.  The market will go where it wants to.
>
> >
> >I trust that you will take my comments in the spirit that they are
> >made--==>>  yes, i am not angry or mad or sad.  You have your opinion, and
> I have mine.  Ham radio is where we come together, and hopefully both enjoy
> the spectrum, and not lose it to higher bidders.
>
> and that is the original spirit of the amateur radio fraternity,
> >which, like the general populace, contains within its ranks individuals
> >comprising a wide range of different opinions, wishes, desires, economic
> >positions and interests, but all of whom are bound together by many
> >common bonds. ==>> True, True!
> >
> >73, Keith====>>>  73's as well, Van wd8aam
> >
> >
> >
> >van lincoln wrote:
> >>
> >> enough people won't work, as it only takes ONE high bidder to set the
> >> price.  You lowbidders
> >> have no recourse except to either go with the market value, or forget
> >> buying anything you really want that's worth more to someone else.  Get
> >> real!  that's why the auction is the capitalist's dream, as it pits one
> >> high bidder against the others, the only losers are the losers.  The market
> >> value is as high as anyone is willing to bid. those that have, get.  those
> >> who don't, don't get. simple.  (this is the age old principle of real
> >> estate investing.)
> >>
> >> At 01:58 PM 2/26/98 -0800, Keith Rowland wrote:
> >> >Daniel:  This is how all the Collins stuff got to be so inflated. One
> >> >way to stop it is for enough people to refuse to participate.
> >> >
> >> >73, Keith
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Daniel T Ruth wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> I was just the successful bidder on a HG-10B VFO on eBay (on-line
> >> >> auctioning).
> >> >> I was also the    ONLY    bidder on this item.
> >> >> My winning bid was the opening price: $65.00
> >> >>
> >> >> Now,
> >> >> Back on 02/01/98, another HG-10B (similar description/condition) had 28
> >> >> bids!!!
> >> >> It finally ended up at $172.51
> >> >>
> >> >> Go figure!
> >> >>
> >> >> Is this a commentary on the bidding frenzy that can take place on eBay.
> >> >>
> >> >> God help us all!!
> >> >>
> >> >> Danny  W3ZF  heathkit at juno.com
> >> >>
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