[Outages-discussion] [outages] Ping to Google 8.8.8.8

[Jay Hennigan]

On 2/8/22 22:41, Mark Tinka wrote:

> On 2/9/22 07:33, Jay Hennigan wrote:
> 
>> So, "ping pool.ntp.org", then? Hey, it works! Problem solved.
>>
>> Seriously, that would just be repeating the problem of (ab)using a 
>> public resource for something other than its intended purpose.
> 
> You are putting words in my mouth...
> 
> To be clear, I mean that we develop ping-specific infrastructure that is 
> public and well-known by all and sundry, in the same way we developed 
> NTP for time-specific infrastructure, that is public and well-known by 
> all and sundry.

I concur, as I expressed later in the post.

> Why would I recommend that anyone ping NTP servers for testing :-\?

I was joking, and I thought it was obvious from the next line.

> The fact that you misinterpreted what I was saying (and perhaps, I could 
> have been clearer as well) shows just how hard it will be to get regular 
> folk away from pinging yahoo.com, google.com or 8.8.8.8, until we give 
> them something else that is built for purpose.

I didn't misinterpret it, I was attempting to show that if we drive home 
the point of not using public DNS, users are just going to switch to 
other unsuitable public resources such as NTP as ping targets.

>> To be universal, it would need to be anycast from multiple dispersed 
>> locations. Maybe Cloudflare would be willing, like the 1.1.1.1 
>> resolver. There's probably some interesting data for the operator of 
>> such a service to analyze and monetize. If popular, the operator would 
>> have real-time observation of outages by location, ASN, etc. to a very 
>> granular level.
> 
> Agree.
> 
> My point is we have to be deliberate about it, because the general 
> public don't care.

It's IMHO not so much "don't care" as "don't know any better", coupled 
with the lack of a well-known public alternative designed for the purpose.

We're on the same page.

-- 
Jay Hennigan - jay at west.net
Network Engineering - CCIE #7880
503 897-8550 - WB6RDV