[Outages-discussion] Cogent disconnecting Russia

[Sean Brown]

Is this really what Cogent is doing? It’s not doing anything to the physical hardware, it’s just choosing not to peer or work directly with Russian companies.

Does Cogent own any of the physical infrastructure here? Is Cogents move causing issues beyond not creating direct connections between it’s customers and Russian based end-points? Is this move only really affecting Cogent customers in Russia?

There is an unfortunate problem taking wording from a telecommunication world of over 100 years ago and relating it to the current way the internet works, but it would seem that those conventions would really properly only apply to Tier 1 networks. 


> On Mar 4, 2022, at 4:27 PM, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
> 
> I would agree with you if not for this passage:
> 
>> A neutral Power must see to the same obligation being observed by
>> companies or private individuals owning telegraph or telephone cables or
>> wireless telegraphy apparatus.
> 
> 
> That, to me, says that the US, if it were a neutral power (and I am unconvinced
> that it is), it would have those obligations and would further be required to
> enforce those same obligations upon Cogent.
> 
> Owen
> 
>> On Mar 4, 2022, at 12:26 , Sean Brown <sean.brown at saminds.com <mailto:sean.brown at saminds.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> I disagree. It seems pretty obvious the ’neutral power’ reference are the signatory nations to the Convention not engaged in conflict and not every private entity therein. As such the US (in this case) couldn’t direct Cogent to disconnect from Russia and not Ukraine, but Cogent is free, as a private entity, to choose not to do business with companies in Russia.
>> 
>> The US is not directing Cogent to this action so the US is not in violation of the Convention, and Cogent is not a signatory to the Convention.
>> 
>>> On Mar 4, 2022, at 2:59 PM, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com <mailto:owen at delong.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> It’s clear from the second paragraph of I.9 that this convention is written
>>> to apply to “powers” (i.e. governments) and that each government is expected
>>> to enforce compliance by companies operating under its “flag” for lack of a
>>> better term.
>>> 
>>> As such, it seems, at least in theory that Cogent would be expected to be
>>> of the same posture (neutrality or not) as the U.S. overall. I think it would
>>> be hard to claim that the U.S. is either entirely neutral or entirely in support
>>> of Ukraine under current conditions, so I guess that leaves Cogent free to
>>> choose anywhere on that spectrum they wish as well.
>>> 
>>> Personally, I’m of mixed opinion. I support doing whatever we can to hurt
>>> Putin and the leadership of Russia that has created this situation, but I am
>>> not convinced that cutting off access to outside information for millions of
>>> Russian citizens is not counterproductive to that end.
>>> 
>>> Owen
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Mar 4, 2022, at 11:36 , Matthew Petach <matt at petach.org <mailto:matt at petach.org>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> If they're going to follow the War Conventions in the Hauge, they should likewise terminate all customer connections to Ukraine as well, if they're considering themselves to be a neutral party.  
>>>> 
>>>> Of course, that doesn't apply if they're taking a side as a participant in the conflict.
>>>> 
>>>> Shamelessly copying from Sean Donelan...
>>>> 
>>>> https://www.icrc.org/en <https://www.icrc.org/en>
>>>> 
>>>> Convention (V) respecting the Rights and Duties of Neutral Powers and
>>>> Persons in Case of War on Land. The Hague, 18 October 1907.
>>>> 
>>>> CHAPTER I : THE RIGHTS AND DUTIES OF NEUTRAL POWERS - ART. 8.
>>>> 
>>>> Art. 8. A neutral Power is not called upon to forbid or restrict the use
>>>> on behalf of the belligerents of telegraph or telephone cables or of
>>>> wireless telegraphy apparatus belonging to it or to companies or private
>>>> individuals.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> CHAPTER I : THE RIGHTS AND DUTIES OF NEUTRAL POWERS - ART. 9.
>>>> 
>>>> Art. 9. Every measure of restriction or prohibition taken by a neutral
>>>> Power in regard to the matters referred to in Articles 7 and 8
>>>> must be impartially applied by it to both belligerents.
>>>> 
>>>> A neutral Power must see to the same obligation being observed by
>>>> companies or private individuals owning telegraph or telephone cables or
>>>> wireless telegraphy apparatus.
>>>> 
>>>> On Fri, Mar 4, 2022, 11:20 Andy Ringsmuth <andy at andyring.com <mailto:andy at andyring.com>> wrote:
>>>> Apparently effective at noon EDT, which would be a couple hours ago.
>>>> 
>>>> Washington Post, but here’s a paywall-free archive:
>>>> 
>>>> https://archive.ph/TFgyg <https://archive.ph/TFgyg>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
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