[VoiceOps] Fwd: 911 and Softphones

Thu May 14 20:53:29 EDT 2020

Apple in particular has some advanced, enhanced, and proprietary methods to
locate devices.  They have become so hard to steal.  I don't know their
system at any deep level, but it uses technology that understands location
and direction.  It can also pass on location data between Apple devices,
even if they don't belong to you.

https://www.pocket-lint.com/phones/news/apple/149336-how-apple-s-u1-chip-adds-amazing-new-capabilities-to-the-iphone

https://www.zdnet.com/article/how-google-and-everyone-else-gets-wi-fi-location-data/

We were able to find a lost Airpod because of this, last seen by a
neighbor's network.  Found in the park behind his house.

Aside from that, there are databases full of info on where wifi APs are
located, so their proximity can be used to enhance GPS.  Have you ever
noticed that devices sometimes "float" within a building?  That's because
it's really just approximating.

In this image, all of my devices are within inches of each other, but can't
get GPS, so they are guessing location.

https://i.imgur.com/HFqMSnt.png

On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 1:38 PM Alex Balashov <abalashov at evaristesys.com>
wrote:

> This may be a stupid question, but I know absolutely nothing about
> mobile:
>
> I'm deep inside an apartment building, and there are no windows on the
> lower level. How does my phone know where I am?
>
> I've heard much about deducing it through WiFi and/or Bluetooth, but
> how?
>
> -- Alex
>
> On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 01:27:05PM -0700, Carlos Alvarez wrote:
>
> > GPS is useless inside most buildings.  That's why mobiles have A-GPS,
> which
> > is assisted by wifi and bluetooth.  Even in homes, GPS signals are mostly
> > blocked.  In a commercial building, almost guaranteed to be blocked.
> >
> > On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 1:23 PM Aaron C. de Bruyn <aaron at heyaaron.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I'm still wondering why desk phones don't have a small built-in GPS
> chip
> > > yet?  Soft phones on cell phones could have access to GPS.  Web
> browsers
> > > wouldn't work so well.
> > > But having the phone out-of-band-signal the phone server with GPS info
> > > (maybe a SIP header or something) would allow the phone server to use
> that
> > > information for routing 911 calls.
> > > It could even pass the info through directly to more 'advanced' 911
> > > centers.
> > >
> > > One possibility would be to go old-style and transmit the data in-band
> > > over the voice circuit similar to modems or DSL.  We're only talking a
> few
> > > bytes for GPS coordinates, elevation, and accuracy information.  Burst
> the
> > > data at the beginning of the call, or every 30 seconds, etc...
> > >
> > > My motorola HT-1250 from two decades ago would transmit something like
> an
> > > 8-character radio identifier when you keyed up.  It only delayed the
> > > conversation by a third of a second.
> > >
> > > Maybe the phone server could even add in some additional information
> (i.e.
> > > "123 West Main St / 3rd Floor / Room 42").
> > >
> > > -A
> > >
> > > On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 12:53 PM Carlos Alvarez <caalvarez at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> I *thought* I had read something about mobile apps being given a pass
> on
> > >> 911, but not completely sure.  And then where do we cross the line?
> Mobile
> > >> app, tablet running a WebRTC softphone...etc...
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 12:41 PM Mike Hammett <voiceops at ics-il.net>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> We're looking that we may have to allocate a lot more DIDs, simply
> for
> > >>> the new 911 requirements. We have a lot of clients with work from
> home
> > >>> people. Some have their own DIDs already, some don't.
> > >>>
> > >>> Softphones make this a lot more complicated. We could have the same
> > >>> extension connected via desk phone, windows app, Chrome extension,
> phone
> > >>> app, and tablet app. The desk phone is pretty easy. The mobile app?
> Yeah,
> > >>> that's inherently much more difficult to manage.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> I don't know.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> -----
> > >>> Mike Hammett
> > >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> > >>> http://www.ics-il.com
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Midwest Internet Exchange
> > >>> http://www.midwest-ix.com
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> ------------------------------
> > >>> *From: *"Mike Hammett" <voiceops at ics-il.net>
> > >>> *To: *"Voiceops.org" <voiceops at voiceops.org>
> > >>> *Sent: *Thursday, May 14, 2020 2:04:43 PM
> > >>> *Subject: *[VoiceOps] Fwd: 911 and Softphones
> > >>>
> > >>> The pitfalls of having my email address mirror the mailing lists I'm
> on,
> > >>> I get list submissions.  :-)
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> -----
> > >>> Mike Hammett
> > >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> > >>> http://www.ics-il.com
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Midwest Internet Exchange
> > >>> http://www.midwest-ix.com
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> ------------------------------
> > >>> *From: *"Christopher Aloi" <ctaloi at gmail.com>
> > >>> *To: *voiceops at ics-il.net
> > >>> *Sent: *Thursday, May 14, 2020 9:39:41 AM
> > >>> *Subject: *911 and Softphones
> > >>>
> > >>> Hey All,
> > >>>
> > >>> With the recent migration to everyone working from home we are
> seeing a
> > >>> huge increase in soft phone usage.  How is everyone handling location
> > >>> updates for 911 with soft phones?  Our switch has the concept of
> sites and
> > >>> users fall within a site but can also travel across sites.  An out
> pulsed
> > >>> number is bound to the site when 911 is dialed from within the
> site.  We
> > >>> are looking at building individual sites for each user so they can
> have a
> > >>> dedicated unique outbound number only for 911.  Does your company
> consider
> > >>> a soft phone the same as a "hard" phone with regards to 911?  From
> the
> > >>> reading I have done I see no delineation between the two.  Thanks,
> Chris
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> VoiceOps mailing list
> > >>> VoiceOps at voiceops.org
> > >>> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> VoiceOps mailing list
> > >>> VoiceOps at voiceops.org
> > >>> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
> > >>>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> VoiceOps mailing list
> > >> VoiceOps at voiceops.org
> > >> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
> > >>
> > >
>
> > _______________________________________________
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> > https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
>
>
> --
> Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC
>
> Tel: +1-706-510-6800 / +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free)
> Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
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