[c-nsp] CALEA was Re: OT - Dark Fiber

[Scott Granados]

What about Unlawful requests?  For example, suppose someone went to oh say 
ATT with out a Warrent and demanded they tap say most phones on their 
network?  Or let's say that someone from an alphabet soup organization taps 
you on the shoulder and demands access to your traffic for some sort of 
automated filtering?  Thankfully I don't work in an environment where this 
would ever come up but this was more of a thought experiment. I've worked in 
a few provider networks where law enforcement requests have come up but the 
requests always made sense along with the proper paper work accompanying 
them and honestly I've never first hand observed the type of wide scale 
monitoring that's been reported but the idea of the thing gives me the 
shivers. I'm sorry if this is off topic I'll drop the thread if it is but 
since CALEA was mentioned I was really curious why people bought in to it in 
the first place.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jared Mauch" <jared at puck.nether.net>
To: "Scott Granados" <gsgranados at comcast.net>
Cc: "david raistrick" <drais at icantclick.org>; "jp" <jp at saucer.midcoast.com>; 
<cisco-nsp at puck.nether.net>
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: [c-nsp] CALEA was Re: OT - Dark Fiber


> Talk to your counsel about the compliance requests you get. You may be 
> able to get away without it, but you are required to comply with any 
> lawful requests, even if you don't like them. The same is true for any 
> business where you could get a lawful request for records.
>
> Check out packetforensics if you need a device, much cheaper than  others 
> in the space, their website can be a bit funny, but worth  having a [free] 
> login.
>
> - Jared
>
> On Sep 4, 2009, at 4:07 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
>
>> Why does anyone comply with CALEA?  Especially after the abuses of  the 
>> last 8 years and probably a lot farther back than that?  I've  been 
>> reading about the requirements and the idea that ISPs cooperate  with law 
>> enforcement really makes me uneasy on a civil liberties  basis. Does 
>> Uncle Sam scare tactic people in to compliance?  There's  just something 
>> about making things easier for the NSA and any number  of alphabet soup 
>> agencies that strikes me as unamerican (to use  their own phrase against 
>> them) and wrong. Or was it created simply  to create a new space for 
>> security products and C, J and the others  were really good at lobbying?
>>   Since it doesn't require the ISP to break open encrypted traffic  it 
>> almost makes me think a public key system that lets the end user  encrypt 
>> everything from phone to television with their own keys  makes some sense 
>> so there's nothing left in the clear for  entertaining the James Bond 
>> crowd! Probably not practical at all but  this thread just convinced me 
>> not to use split tunneling.;)
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "david raistrick" 
>> <drais at icantclick.org
>> >
>> To: "jp" <jp at saucer.midcoast.com>
>> Cc: <cisco-nsp at puck.nether.net>
>> Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 12:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: [c-nsp] OT - Dark Fiber
>>
>>
>>> On Fri, 4 Sep 2009, jp wrote:
>>>
>>>> Regarding the topic... If someone provides dark fiber, would they be
>>>> subject to CALEA requirements to be able to tap and record the
>>>
>>> I haven't followed CALEA-for-ISPs for a few years, but at least  when it 
>>> was initially required, dark fiber providers won't need to  comply with 
>>> CALEA.  They're not providing network service.   -lit-  fiber providers 
>>> would because they're either providing network or  telecom 
>>> service....but they generally wouldn't do it at the  physical layer.
>>>
>>> ...david
>>>
>>> --
>>> david raistrick        http://www.netmeister.org/news/ learn2quote.html
>>> drais at icantclick.org             http://www.expita.com/nomime.html
>>>
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